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Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

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Thoronris

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Post November 17th, 2016, 9:54 am

Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Hey there :)

I am new here, but I really need to talk to someone about Fantastic Beasts and the depiction of Legilimency in the film. As I am sure not everyone has yet seen the movie, I will not describe any details. But, I will say I found the way the witch used Legilimency not as I thought the rules were set by Rowling originally. Explaining it as mind reading again and again as well as showing it as mind reading left me confused (I hear Snapes words in my mind), furthermore it is lacking every single thing that was described as needed in order to perform the spell.

So, if any of you that has seen the movie can tell me your thoughts, I would be happy. I loved the movie, but throughout it all I could only think how wrong the Legilimency felt for my taste...

Thoronris
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Skyeset

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Post November 19th, 2016, 1:20 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Saw the movie as well, I really loved it!

I don't quite remember how Snape used Legilimency, though, so I don't know if this is different from the series.

In the movie it's commonly called "mind reading", even though it's really not, simply because it's just easier to explain? In a book you can actually go into details, but movies are fast-paced and don't really have a lot of time to be spent on explaining intricacies. Possibly Legilimency is also called mind reading because for Jacob, as a No-Maj/Muggle, it'd be a lot easier to understand if described as such.
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Thoronris

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Post November 19th, 2016, 10:11 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Even in the movies, Snapes clearly states to Harry that it's not mind reading. It's more like digging through memories and being able to find in all that foggy brain exactly what you are looking for. Also, Legilimency is always presented as something that needs a spell ("legilimens"), even though it can be performed silently and perhaps eben without a wand (as magic in the HP world generally can be done without a wand), but skin contact makes it easier and it seems to be a must that you have eye contact. Even Voldemort, who is said to be the greatest Legilimens of all time, was not able to go through other people's mind with so much ease. Someone suggested that she might have had a sort of innate ability, like Tonks is a shape shifter, but if that was the case, I wished they had at least dropped a hint to it. They showed so much of her mind reading without ever explaining it, and for me what made the HP universe always so great was that more or less everything was explained in one way or another. Of course, it's magic and magic "does stuff" and is not always logical, but Rowling created this whole world where you can learn magic via spells and theories and she sent us to school for seven years so that we understand magic ... I felt that was a very cheap way of presenting it in this movie.
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Arabella

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Post November 21st, 2016, 6:45 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Two thoughts:

1. there is innate legilimens ability and forced legilimens. the later would need a spell but some people do not need to cast it. maybe the spell was inspired by people with that inate ability.

or

2. Queenie is truly unique, and this will be explored more in later installments.
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Skyeset

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Post November 22nd, 2016, 4:12 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

I was considering it, and for a while I considered that they might simply have a different name for it in the US, like Muggles and No-majs, but yeah.... There's definitely a difference, now that I looked back at Snape's Legilimency. Guess we'll just have to wait and see, then.
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singingbird812

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Post November 30th, 2016, 7:10 pm

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Arabella wrote:Two thoughts:

1. there is innate legilimens ability and forced legilimens. the later would need a spell but some people do not need to cast it. maybe the spell was inspired by people with that inate ability.

or

2. Queenie is truly unique, and this will be explored more in later installments.



I like both of your ideas! My thoughts about this were very similar - besides, Dumbledore seemed to be able to do it without a spell. Maybe Queenie is on par with, if not better, at it than he was. I can't wait for the next movie to see/learn more of her!
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vandalia

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Post December 13th, 2016, 7:07 pm

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Arabella wrote:Two thoughts:

1. there is innate legilimens ability and forced legilimens. the later would need a spell but some people do not need to cast it. maybe the spell was inspired by people with that inate ability.

or

2. Queenie is truly unique, and this will be explored more in later installments.


You are correct. JKR mentioned several times ( I don't have references) that almost any wizard of decent skill could perform legilimency using a wand. However, there are those rare individuals who have the innate ability to do this. Queenie falls into this category.

I think it is important to note also that Snape said "it wasn't mind reading" in response to a Harry Potter question. There is a pretty good chance that Snape would have disagreed with Potter no matter what he said. So I wouldn't put TOO much stock into this. Finally, the "not mind reading" is probably how an academic wizard would view legilimency, while for all intents and purposes it is "mind reading."
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GellertGPhoenix

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Post January 28th, 2017, 4:16 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

Queenie is a natural born legilimense. It comes to her second nature. Legilimency, though rare, can come as a natural born gift, and I believe that is why she is so adept at it. I also think that her being related to Tina may have helped, such as when she sensed Tina was in danger over distance. I made another thread about this in the theories section.
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viafina

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Post July 14th, 2017, 8:13 pm

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

I just joined this forum to research/inquire about this exact topic.

Can anyone help me find some in text references for this topic? I seem to remember there being something about it in the HP books, the distinction between discrete use of legilimency spells vs someone who is a natural born legilimens in the same light as being a parseltounge, metamorpmagus, etc.

Thanks!

Jodie

vandalia wrote:
Arabella wrote:Two thoughts:

1. there is innate legilimens ability and forced legilimens. the later would need a spell but some people do not need to cast it. maybe the spell was inspired by people with that inate ability.

or

2. Queenie is truly unique, and this will be explored more in later installments.


You are correct. JKR mentioned several times ( I don't have references) that almost any wizard of decent skill could perform legilimency using a wand. However, there are those rare individuals who have the innate ability to do this. Queenie falls into this category.

I think it is important to note also that Snape said "it wasn't mind reading" in response to a Harry Potter question. There is a pretty good chance that Snape would have disagreed with Potter no matter what he said. So I wouldn't put TOO much stock into this. Finally, the "not mind reading" is probably how an academic wizard would view legilimency, while for all intents and purposes it is "mind reading."
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MarsUltor

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Post July 15th, 2017, 6:29 am

Re: Legilimency in Fantastic Beasts

My opinion is this: Queenie is unique, she is a natural Legilimens

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