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magelet87

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Post April 26th, 2011, 4:46 am

Snape

How come Snape didn't tell Dumbledore that Pettigrew and Sirius switched the secret keeper? He must have known if Voldemort trusted him so much.
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Post April 26th, 2011, 10:17 am

Good one. The first reason that was given for not rounding up all the Death Eaters right after the First War, is that most Death Eaters did not know who the others were. They wore masks all the time and hardly ever revealed anything. So while some knew of each other that they were Death Eaters (perhaps good friends who would recognise each other anywhere), most identities remained unknown to all. This is likely true in the case of Pettigrew. Snape just didn't know that one of the faces behind the mask was Pettigrew's.

But has he been Marked? Just wondering.

And Voldemort may have trusted Snape, but giving information to anybody was never his style I think. At least no more than was needed.
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Post April 27th, 2011, 4:34 am

Yes Wormtail was marked, Voldemort used Wormtail's Dark Mark to summon everyone to the graveyard in GoF.
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Post April 28th, 2011, 8:20 am

Snape did not leave the Death Eaters and create an alliance with Dumbledore until after his beloved Lily had been lost.

Pettigrew was a lifelong friend to the Potters, they have known and trusted him for years. The Death Eaters would know this likely, and might not have known to expect him to betray them. This assuming at least some of the Death Eaters even knew he was among them, once again his friendship to the Potters likely masked his having anything to do with Voldemort.

Remember as well, he was made out a victim and Sirius the betrayer. It is never clear whom (prior to POA) besides Sirius and Voldemort himself knew the truth if anyone. Pettigrew's finger ploy even had the Hogwarts teachers believing the lie and they have always seemed to have the best knowledge of the truth, because they are so trusting of the people they know.

So not only was Snape not yet allied with Dumbledore but Pettigrew had had most everyone fooled.
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Post April 29th, 2011, 3:49 am

Re: Snape

magelet87 wrote:How come Snape didn't tell Dumbledore that Pettigrew and Sirius switched the secret keeper? He must have known if Voldemort trusted him so much.

Did Snape know they had switched? I mean, Voldemort trusted him, but is it really something that would come up in conversation over butterbeer? I mean, I trust my friend, but I ddn't call erh up and tell her every single thing that happens to me. If I did, she'd probably get annoyed with me and tell me to by a freaking diary lol.
I would honestly have to go back to my copy of PoA and check, but I don't think Snape knew about the switch. I took it as, Sirius and Wormtail switched, Wormtail ran and told Voldemort, Voldemort ran and killed James and Lily. I can't imagine Voldemort would stop in the middle of this, drop a quarter into the pay phone, call Snape and be, like, "You won't believe who is secretly working for me AND who just told me where Harry Potter is! No, really, just guess! I'll give you three guesses. Do you want a hint? Ok, I smell a RAT. A RAT. Geddit? Did you get my hint? No, that's not who. Ok, two more guesses..."

And did it even matter? By the time Snape switched allegiance, Lily and James were already dead. By the end of PoA, Wormtail was outed, anyway lol.
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Post April 29th, 2011, 5:49 am

Do you also think that Voldemort knowing that Snape had a soft spot for Lily might have had something to do with it?
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Post April 29th, 2011, 9:01 am

Cedricsgirl wrote:Snape did not leave the Death Eaters and create an alliance with Dumbledore until after his beloved Lily had been lost.


Wrong, he left the moment that he heard Voldemort had targeted the Potters, since he went to Dumbledore to try to ensure their protection and said he would do anything to keep Lily (and by extension, James and Harry) safe.
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Post April 29th, 2011, 11:03 pm

taylorlou93 wrote:Do you also think that Voldemort knowing that Snape had a soft spot for Lily might have had something to do with it?


Probably. Thats what I was thinking.
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Post April 30th, 2011, 9:36 pm

hayden_potter wrote:
Cedricsgirl wrote:Snape did not leave the Death Eaters and create an alliance with Dumbledore until after his beloved Lily had been lost.


Wrong, he left the moment that he heard Voldemort had targeted the Potters, since he went to Dumbledore to try to ensure their protection and said he would do anything to keep Lily (and by extension, James and Harry) safe.


Oh I see, my apologies. It's been literally years since I have read most of them, POA included.
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Post May 25th, 2011, 1:47 pm

To tell the truth, I thought it was stupid to switch to Wormtail anyway. Yes, Voldemort would have automatically come knocking on Sirius' door, but like Sirius and Lupin told Pettigrew they would be willing to die rather than give up James and Lily. Guess Sirius wasn't so willing to die in order to keep them safe.
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Post May 26th, 2011, 3:38 am

You all have to remember that the Order was well aware that there was a spy for Voldemort among them, they just had no idea who it was. They knew that the spy might tell Voldemort everyone who was in the Order so that they would all be targeted. If the secret keeper was killed, then anyone who had been told the secret (and a few people had, since Wormtail, Sirius and Lupin had all been to visit the Potters since they went into hiding) would have become secret keepers - thus making it more likely for the secret to be told to Voldemort. They thought that Wormtail was the least-likely candidate for being the spy, and also the least-likely to be targeted by the Death Eaters, so they decided to change the secret keeper to Wormtail. Unfortunately, they didn't know that Wormtail was the spy.

Did that make sense?
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Post May 26th, 2011, 3:48 am

hayden_potter wrote:You all have to remember that the Order was well aware that there was a spy for Voldemort among them, they just had no idea who it was. They knew that the spy might tell Voldemort everyone who was in the Order so that they would all be targeted. If the secret keeper was killed, then anyone who had been told the secret (and a few people had, since Wormtail, Sirius and Lupin had all been to visit the Potters since they went into hiding) would have become secret keepers - thus making it more likely for the secret to be told to Voldemort. They thought that Wormtail was the least-likely candidate for being the spy, and also the least-likely to be targeted by the Death Eaters, so they decided to change the secret keeper to Wormtail. Unfortunately, they didn't know that Wormtail was the spy.

Did that make sense?


Certainly makes sense, hayden_p. Sirius was the secret-keeper, but there was talk of a spy...in fact, Dumbledore offered to be Secret Keeper, but the Potters refused, because they trusted their friends. But Sirius wanted to outwit Voldemort and, well, gave it to Peter and well...we saw how that worked out.
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Post May 26th, 2011, 10:26 am

Sirius was right though, he should have seen that Pettigrew was the spy all along. Why would they think that Pettigrew would not be the spy? Because he was weak and talentless? Seems like the perfect reason to be a spy to me. If this is what your "friends" think of you, who needs enemies?! Meanwhile it was foolish in the extreme, and short-sighted as all get-out for James and Lily to refuse Dumbledore as their secret-keeper. Given the choice of anyone in the world, I would know that I could trust Dumbledore. Having used him would not mean that their friends were not trustworthy people....just that Dumbledore was more so. Which of course turned out to be true WHOOPS! :shock:
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Post August 20th, 2012, 9:11 pm

I would trust Dumbledore to be secret keeper because Voldemort was scared of him. I don't know why they didn't accept his offer because they would still be alive and i would've definitely made sure Peter Pettigrew went to azkaban.
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Post May 19th, 2013, 3:16 am

Re:

Mic1510 wrote:I would trust Dumbledore to be secret keeper because Voldemort was scared of him. I don't know why they didn't accept his offer because they would still be alive and i would've definitely made sure Peter Pettigrew went to azkaban.


Yeah, considering they knew there was a spy in the Order and considering how Voldemort was afraid of Dumbledore, they really should have accepted his offer. But they wanted to believe in their friends, and I can understand that. It's just too bad that led to their betrayal.

And yeah, I don't think that Snape DID know that Wormtail was the Secret Keeper/Voldy's spy. I doubt any of the Death Eaters knew that many of their fellow Death Eaters.
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Post June 10th, 2013, 3:26 am

Re: Snape

Only the secret keeper can tell the secret, correct?

Snape was at the Potters after, correct?

Wormtail would have had to tell Snape as well, correct?
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Post January 15th, 2014, 1:52 am

Re: Snape

Jayfer wrote:Only the secret keeper can tell the secret, correct?

Snape was at the Potters after, correct?

Wormtail would have had to tell Snape as well, correct?

Snape didn't come to the Potters' house afterward, that was just in the movie.
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Post January 15th, 2014, 3:02 am

Re: Snape

magelet87 wrote:How come Snape didn't tell Dumbledore that Pettigrew and Sirius switched the secret keeper? He must have known if Voldemort trusted him so much.


I feel like in the First War Snape was not as well-respected or trusted by Voldemort as he was in the Second War. I see him as a lowly soldier/spy. Not the commander he became during the series.
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Post November 20th, 2015, 3:31 pm

Re: Snape

Snape did not leave the Death Eaters and create an alliance with Dumbledore until after his beloved Lily had been lost.

Not true. Snape made the alliance with Dumbledore to protect Lily and failed because even if he knew Pettigrew was a death eater he didn't know he had been made the Potters secret keeper.
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Post November 23rd, 2015, 10:28 am

Re: Snape

APWBD1881 wrote:I feel like in the First War Snape was not as well-respected or trusted by Voldemort as he was in the Second War. I see him as a lowly soldier/spy. Not the commander he became during the series.

That's it. At the time the most important death eaters were Lucius (who was still the second in command until his fail at the ministry) and Bellatrix, the two only death eaters who were entrusted with a Horcrux. There must have been others senior death eaters such as Dolohov who was considered to be the leader responsible of Molly's brothers murder, and others death eaters all older than Snape who was one of the younger and a acknowledged half-blood on top of that.
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Post January 5th, 2017, 4:54 pm

Re:

Vapormort wrote:Sirius was right though, he should have seen that Pettigrew was the spy all along. Why would they think that Pettigrew would not be the spy? Because he was weak and talentless? Seems like the perfect reason to be a spy to me.


Haha... I also think like this. Isn't it common sense that the weakest one will most likely give up to the enemy?
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Post January 6th, 2017, 12:49 am

Re: Re:

Monox D. I-Fly wrote:
Vapormort wrote:Sirius was right though, he should have seen that Pettigrew was the spy all along. Why would they think that Pettigrew would not be the spy? Because he was weak and talentless? Seems like the perfect reason to be a spy to me.


Haha... I also think like this. Isn't it common sense that the weakest one will most likely give up to the enemy?


Common maybe, but sense no.
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Post January 6th, 2017, 11:41 pm

Re: Re:

Grrarrggh wrote:
Monox D. I-Fly wrote:
Vapormort wrote:Sirius was right though, he should have seen that Pettigrew was the spy all along. Why would they think that Pettigrew would not be the spy? Because he was weak and talentless? Seems like the perfect reason to be a spy to me.


Haha... I also think like this. Isn't it common sense that the weakest one will most likely give up to the enemy?


Common maybe, but sense no.


Yes, I could imagine a villain thinking "Look, that's my prey's weakest friend. Let's taunt him so he would sell his friend to me".
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