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Ron and Hermione

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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 24th, 2017, 4:44 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

I do not want to start an argument but that's a very weak point. Ron and Ginny argued pretty much the same way when Ron implied Ginny was a slut. Ron implied Hermione would betray Harry due to Viktor and Hermione had a similar reaction to what Ginny had. But I mean for example - Ron/Hermione in the movies, there are more hints, like Hermione and Ron's moment when they are near the Shreiking Shack and Hermione giving a small hint that she kind of wanted to Ron to barge up the courage and ask her to the Yule Ball. Fifth movie, he makes her laugh and she seems to enjoy his company - the arguing dies down considerably too...
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GinChaser

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Post June 24th, 2017, 4:35 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Yea brothers and Sisters fight like that too. He fought with Ginny like that because he was protective over her and once again demonstrated his startling lack of tact. Ginny exploded.

He fought with Hermione because he was jealous, because he wanted to go with her. Hermione even says that he should have asked her first, an implication that she would have liked to have gone with him.
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torrent56

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Post June 25th, 2017, 1:19 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Goblet of Fire wrote:I do have a question for Romione fans. I can list Romione moments from Hermione's POV in the movies on the tip of my fingers - a common one being when in the third movie she protected Ron from Malfoy but in the books, what are some moments showing that Hermione likes Ron before the sixth book?

Why are you quoting the movies anyway here in this forum? I thought we're discussing the books.

The Yule Ball argument and Ron's fight with Ginny in HBP is completely in different in that during the Yule Ball argument Ron was in denial about why he had a problem with Hermione dating Viktor (and really his arguments at surface are really weak if you think about it) but it's completely different with Ginny's in which it is very clear he was concerned about her reputation.

Anyway, why do you think JKR repeatedly shows in the first 4 books how much Hermione cared about Ron's opinion of her? Even more than Harry a lot of times? A good example would be to compare how Hermione reconciled with Harry over the Firebolt fight and how she reconciled with Ron over the cat-rat fight. See the difference right there.

By the way I believe that the bickering GinChaser was referring to was how they were talking about romance related subjects which is a pretty standard trope to show/indicate future romance in fiction when it's done between two people of opposite sex who are unrelated to one another.
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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 25th, 2017, 1:37 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

The Firebolt fight is actually a good example but Harry just stopped speaking to Hermione - Ron lashed out at her, that scared her and she was relieved because they were friends again and she was exhausted. Harry actually attempted to reconcile with her in the Scabbers/Crookshanks fight but Ron didn't and continued things.

Ron's arguments were weak but Ron was making assumptions that Hermione would betray Harry - that offended her. Even Harry thought Ron was getting to the point. Ron insulted Hermione and he insulted Ginny in the sixth one.

Hermione bickers with everyone though, she likes arguing it seems. It's in her nature. Also isn't arguing all the time kinda unhealthy? In the movies, they weren't shown really bickering all that much to be honest.
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Remustonks

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Post June 25th, 2017, 4:08 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

So and what point are you trying to make? Maybe it is if you argue a lot, but Ron and Hermione had their moments. It wasn't all the time they were a argueing. They may not have been arguing a lot in the movies, but that's because Steve Kloves was a big supporter of Harmony and he put a lot of Harry and Hermione moments in the movies plus the movies don't matter much as far as canon go. They aren't canon nor will they ever be. Ron and Hermione had their faults, but they did make a good couple. Yes they would have to work at it, but that makes it better. They were like a real couple. In a lot of ways Hinny was more perfect. Sure they were great together, but Ron and Hermione was more real.
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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 25th, 2017, 4:17 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

I don't think the movies added romantic Harmony because they added Romione moments that weren't in the books too, Shreiking Shack scene is a good example and the piano playing scene in the Deathly Hallows.
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Remustonks

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Post June 25th, 2017, 4:45 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Then you must not really be a Harmony shipper. I am sorry if you were you would see it. Not trying to hate on you, but most fans saw it and that's not what they liked about the movies. Yes they did add some great Ronmione moment, but there was far more Harry/Hermione moments because of Steve Kloves.
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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 26th, 2017, 3:50 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

But the Harry/Hermione moments weren't really romantic in nature - yes there were things added which I did like but the films were trying to build Ron and Hermione. The only scene that would kind of be considered romantic is the dance scene in DH Part 1 I feel. But the scenes were done so beautifully in my opinion.
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Remustonks

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Post June 26th, 2017, 3:47 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

The point is that there were more moments with Harry and Hermione than Ron and Hermione. Ron was down played a lot and made out to be a comic relief more than anything else. The dance scene is a good point as it could be a romantic scene.
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torrent56

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Post June 28th, 2017, 8:15 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Goblet of Fire wrote:The Firebolt fight is actually a good example but Harry just stopped speaking to Hermione - Ron lashed out at her, that scared her and she was relieved because they were friends again and she was exhausted. Harry actually attempted to reconcile with her in the Scabbers/Crookshanks fight but Ron didn't and continued things.

Why would Harry NOT try to reconcile them in the cat/rat fight when he has no stake in it at all? It's kinda different with Ron in the Firebolt because he was hurt as well that Hermione went behind him instead of . You're also missing what I am saying. I am asking why does Hermione care so much what Ron thinks about her? Obviously people can deny that's a clue towards where the future romance is heading but they shouldn't complain that the romance came out of nowhere in HBP.

Goblet of Fire wrote:Ron's arguments were weak but Ron was making assumptions that Hermione would betray Harry - that offended her. Even Harry thought Ron was getting to the point. Ron insulted Hermione and he insulted Ginny in the sixth one.

I assume you're talking about the Yule Ball - the point was Ron was making stupid assumptions and arguments because he was in major denial about the real reason.

Goblet of Fire wrote:Hermione bickers with everyone though, she likes arguing it seems. It's in her nature. Also isn't arguing all the time kinda unhealthy? In the movies, they weren't shown really bickering all that much to be honest.

That's true, Hermione does argue and bicker with everyone so she needs to be with someone who will argue back instead of ignoring her or letting her steamroll him. By the way, Harry hates arguing with people which is just one of the reason he is a poor choice for Hermione. Also a lot of people believe the myth Ron and Hermione argue or bicker all the time which is just ridiculous. Ron and Hermione are actually more likely to agree with each other and side against Harry than Harry and Hermione together siding against Ron. Just look at OotP or HBP for examples.

The problem with the movies isn't just how the romance is going - people has already said that so I don't need to go through it again. The issue is that there are lots of important scenes that show only Hermione comforting Harry while Ron stays in the background which is simply not the case in the books (they are called a trio, not a duo). I also agree with everything Remustonks said here.
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Remustonks

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Post June 28th, 2017, 11:04 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Thank you for that and I agree with the points you made, torrent56.
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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 28th, 2017, 1:46 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Ron/Hermione didn't come out of nowhere. I never said that - did I? I said that about Hinny in the books but not Romione. I just wondered where Hermione was interested in Ron in the books. Not really - Harry is not a poor choice of Hermione, they are way more in sync than she is with Ron. See how they work things out when they need to solve something and how they work together. Harry and Hermione work pretty well together as seen in DH. Also everyone is jealous of Harmony - Viktor - Cho - and even Ron. Even Rita Skeeter thought there was something there.
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Remustonks

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Post June 28th, 2017, 2:28 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Sorry for thinking you did, but Hinny didn't come out of no where either. Harry isn't a poor choice, but not the right choice for Hermione. What is there to be jealous of? Harmony would never work and it's a fanon canon ship so there is nothing to be jealous of. Yes Harry and Hermione worked well together, but that doesn't mean they should be together. They were like brother and sister, nothing more. So by your thinking, Harry and Hermione should be together because they work well together? That is not a reason to be someone. In some ways Harry would better for Hermione, but from Hermione's point of view not Harry's. Cho was only jealous because Harry was going to meet up with Hermione and he never told her when they first went on their date. It was just the fact that Harry was meeting up with Hermione and Cho had no idea why. Also in the moment Harry who didn't know he was going to give interview was only going to meet up with Hermione because she asked him to nothing more.

Ron was only jealous of Harry because he liked Hermione and thought that Harry did which he did not well at least not in a romantic way. Rita Skeeter was just making up stuff like she always does. There is hardly any truth to what she says. She just take a story with little to nothing to it and puts her spin on it. If you are going to use people to back up your Harmony ship and want people to see where you are coming from I wouldn't you Rita Skeeter. She is not the best person to use nor would I use her. Not everyone is jealous of Harmony because you only stated three people, which isn't everyone.

It is ok to ship Harmony, I am not saying that just please if you will. stop trying to make it canon when it's not and it's not even semi canon. Go on and ship it. I am cool with who ever you ship, but I hate when people try to make something canon when it's not or they try to twist canon to fit what they want to happen. Sorry if I sound mean, I am not trying to be. I am just stating my option and what I think.
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Goblet of Fire

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Post June 29th, 2017, 2:24 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

You're being very rude. I take back my opinion of you being open-minded earlier but I am in no position to debate right now due to my real life mental trauma going on. I please ask you to wait a few days and for no one else to chime in when I do give a reply. I can't think clear right now anyway so I may be being sensitive but that was very harsh. I thought you were open-minded but I was wrong. I was attempting to have a discussion not debate whose better for Hermione because to me it will always be Harry.
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Post June 29th, 2017, 4:29 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Ron and Hermione had an on and off relationship, but I think she should have continued to see Viktor Krum.
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Remustonks

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Post June 29th, 2017, 7:54 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

I am very sorry about coming off as rude. I do have an open mind, but I will never get behind Harmony and I go on defense about that ship because it would never happen. Sorry about all the stuff that you are going through. I will hold off. One more thing, Harry may be the one for Hermione in your eyes, but that still doesn't change the fact. It will never be Harry. Once again I am really sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude and this is where I will leave it. Have a nice day and once again I am sorry. I wasn't trying to be rude, it just sounded that way. I am really not a rude person.
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torrent56

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Post June 30th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Wow, I am away for a few days and look at the pace of this thread is going!

Remustonks – No problem. I find a lot of your points to be very insightful here.

Goblet of Fire - I am sorry but if you’re going to post on Romione threads saying how Harry is a better choice for Hermione than Ron you can’t really expect anything other than supporters disagreeing with you so you shouldn't take it personally. Now I am responding your post because as far as I can see your post was responding to my post. You should take all the time you need to respond if you have real life issues.

Goblet of Fire wrote:Ron/Hermione didn't come out of nowhere. I never said that - did I? I said that about Hinny in the books but not Romione. I just wondered where Hermione was interested in Ron in the books. Not really - Harry is not a poor choice of Hermione, they are way more in sync than she is with Ron. See how they work things out when they need to solve something and how they work together. Harry and Hermione work pretty well together as seen in DH.


That comment was never meant for you specifically. It was aimed to everyone who think Hermione didn’t feel that way about Ron and thus the romance came out of nowhere. As for where Hermione was interested in Ron – how about the way she asked Ron to ask her to the Ball the next time and how sensitive she reacted to Ron’s tactless comment about pretty girls or her reaction to Fleur Delacour whom Ron was seduced by the Veela charm?

As for Harry being a poor choice – I said it because Harry hates arguing with Hermione and Hermione is naturally argumentative. Hermione is also bossy and Harry hates being bossed around by anybody. I hope I am clear now.

Otherwise they also have don’t have very much emotional connection when Ron wasn’t around. A relationship isn’t very good is they have to derive a sense of fun and comfort from the presence of a third person.
As for them working well, Harry and Ron works well together as well in dangerous situations don’t they? I think a relationship needs more than just people working well in dangerous situations like fellow soldiers, what happens when the battle is over?

Why do people always seem to think Harry and Hermione are a couple? Well, I can't be 100% sure but based on what I know about the real world I am thinking it's probably a result of celebrity effect with Harry being the famous boy who lived and Hermione the "brightest witch of her age". It doesn't mean that is how they feel. Also do you honestly think Rita Skeeter shipping Harmony is good for the ship?

BTW if really want to have 1-1 discussion with somebody with nobody else stepping you should use the private message function.
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Post June 30th, 2017, 10:04 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Harry and Hermione simply do not match romantically. Yes, random fans may precept things according to what they want, dream and wish, but it truly does not change the facts.

Appearance

First point may be a bit shallow, but it is still a part of a relationship, and that part is appearance.
Harry simply does not by fact find Hermione attractive. That does not mean that she is ugly or anything, it's just that Harry in his view and opinion don't find her attractive while others like Ron and Viktor does.
We see physical admiration in those we want. Every person has his/her own view on what they think is beautiful, and we are drawn to that. Being in a relationship with some one you don't find attractive is in many ways forced and partly based on lies if this isn't understood by both parts.

Harry's first impression of Hermione is not a positive one: "She had a bossy sort of voice, lots of bushy brown hair, and rather large front teeth." Now, that is not fatal, plenty of romance stories have started off with a bad first impression. But it is notable that Harry's mental description of his friend is still almost identical when she is introduced in the beginning of Book Four: "with very bushy brown hair and rather large front teeth, was Harry's and Ron's friend, Hermione Granger."
And Book Five - "there was a loud twittering noise, followed by an even louder shriek, and his vision was completely obscured by a large quantity of very bushy hair."
By the beginning of Book Five, of course, Hermione has lost the "rather large front teeth," but her "large quantity of very bushy hair" is emphasized even more, by having it cover Harry's face, blinding him and possibly hindering his ability to breathe -- 'Let him breathe, Hermione,' said Ron, grinning.

However, Harry gets a second chance to have a first impression of Hermione's appearance, when he fails to recognize her at the Yule Ball in Book Four. He calls her a pretty girl in blue robes. This is, of course, positive, but considering the time (three hours), effort, and magic (Sleekeazy's Potion) Hermione has used to change her appearance that night, it is a disappointingly tepid reaction. Compare it, for instance, to Harry's reaction that same night to Parvati, "who looked very pretty indeed in robes of shocking pink, with her long dark hair braided with gold, and gold bracelets glimmering at her wrists." Or to Padma, who was looking just as pretty as Parvati in robes of bright turquoise and whose dark eyes lingered on Ron's frayed lace. Or to Fleur, who was looking stunningin robes of silver-grey satin.

When Harry sees that the "pretty girl in blue" is actually his friend Hermione, his jaw drops in surprise. And he is not alone. Harry sees that Parvati was gazing at Hermione with unflattering disbelief. She wasn't the only one either, Pansy Parkinson gaped at her. The text is clearly saying that both Parvati and Pansy gaped at Hermione in "unflattering" surprise that she could look as attractive as she does. And Harry does as well, his jaw drops in surprise that Hermione can look "pretty." Though only, I'm afraid, when she didn't look like Hermione at all. Harry's description of Hermione details everything that is different. Her hair, clothes, posture, smile, all parts which she looks different from her normal self.

So the one and only time when Harry has found Hermione to be pretty is the time when she after three hours no longer looks that way she is. Because he notes after the Yule Bale that Hermione is "back to her normal self" and he never thought her to be pretty in a romantic way ever again, let alone would he not even once by physically attracted to her.

So Harry has plenty of time and energy to notice and be attracted to girls. He simply hasn't responded to Hermione this way. I'm not arguing that Harry thinks Hermione is ugly. Again, we have other peopple who thinks she is pretty. It is simply that Harry doesn't fancy her.

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Conflicts in character

There is no doubt that Hermione Granger is a talker. When she is nervous or excited she babbles, and the books are littered with long monologues from her. Harry notices and dislikes this trait in their very first meeting and it goes on through the years. This first impression of garrulity is hammered home as the books progress and the times Hermione is mentioned.
* Are you sure that's a real spell?' said the girl. 'Well, it's not very good, is it?… [snip long speech] …- I'm Hermione Granger, by the way, who are you?' She said all this very fast.
* "Harry tried hard not to listen to her"
* "hissing at them like an angry goose"
* "Hermione was now refusing to speak to Harry and Ron, but she was such a bossy know-it-all that they saw this as an added bonus"
* Hermione, sounding as usual as though she had swallowed the textbook
* Hermione irritated the rest by fussing
* Harry shook his head and applied himself to his scrambled eggs (when Hermione is ranting about house-elves)
* 'Hermione,' Harry said through gritted teeth, 'will you shut up for a bit, please?
* Harry had never expected the day to be a restful one, but he had not reckoned on Hermione's almost continual attempts to dissuade him from what he was planning to do
* He had been regretting this ever since; Hermione would not let the subject drop and kept reverting to it when Harry least expected it

Besides being bored and annoyed when Hermione goes into monologue mode, Harry is also displeased when her talkativeness takes the form of showing off her knowledge. He is first made uncomfortable by this trait of Hermione's in the first Potions class, when she is standing up and waving her hand while he's trying to answer Snape's questions. Again, this is repeated in later books. In Book Two we have: "Hermione's hand narrowly missed Harry's glasses as it shot up again."

In Book Three we see: "Trying to answer a question with Hermione next to him, bobbing up and down on the balls of her feet with her hand in the air, was very off-putting."
In Book Five we see that Hermione has not grown out of this endearing-to-the-reader but annoying-to-Harry trait: "Hermione's hand shot into the air. Behind her back, Malfoy did a buck-toothed imitation of her jumping up and down in eagerness to answer a question."

It is easy to understand why Harry finds this behaviour off-putting. Harry usually has more attention than he wants. He does not fully understand the insecurities that drive Hermione and Ron to show off (though he does display some sympathy with Ron's hair-ruffling in. Harry, of course, accepts this flaw in his two best friends, but in a girlfriend he does want something else. Some one else.

The other aspect of Hermione's talkative nature that particularly bugs Harry is her argumentativeness. Again and again in the books, Harry reacts with annoyance to the frequent bickering. We see Hermione arguing with Harry many times, including arguing about turning in the Marauder's Map, about working on his egg, about obeying Sirius, about contacting Sirius, about using the Invisibility Cloak, about Sirius's motives and character, about Luna, about going to Dumbledore, about his Defense Against the Dark Arts abilities, about Occlumency lessons, about Hagrid, about going to the Department of Mysteries and the list goes on. We also see Hermione arguing with Professor Trelawney about Grims, with Lavender about her bunny, with Professor Snape about the Defense Against the Dark Arts class, with Mr. Weasley, Percy, and George about house-elves and even with Winky the House-elf. In book 5 alone she argues with Umbridge, Luna, Sirius, Hagrid, Parvati, Fred & Gerorge and of course Harry.

I think it is perfectly clear in canon that Hermione is more argumentative than Ron and Harry together, certainly far more argumentative than the average person, possibly the most argumentative character in these books. Thus we also see Harry reacting with annoyance and avoidance.
It is not that a talkative, argumentative female is unsuitable for a relationship. This type of woman, on the contrary, is extremely common as a love interest, especially in romantic comedies. A "mouthy broad," if you will pardon the archaic term, is seen as a romantic and sexual challenge for the man who can match her in verbal sparring. This, in fact, is what we see between Hermione and Ron.

Ron, from early in Book One, is nettled and infuriated by Hermione's talkativeness and argumentativeness, and cannot resist responding to her verbal challenges, even at times when he is supposedly "not talking to her"

Harry on the other hand ignores or avoids Hermione to escape her arguments like she was Voldemort him self, but Ron consistently rises to her bait as he finds the challenge irresistible, leading to Ron and Hermione, as Harry puts it, "always having a go at each other"

Some males are attracted to a talkative and argumentative female like Hermione. But Harry is not one of them unlike Ron.

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What their relationships actually is

Besides that Hermione is one of Harry's two best friends, she is even more so an elder sister to him. Even a mother in some aspects.
Hermione is a very nurturing and caring person. We see her ladling out food onto Harry's and Ron's plates. We see her making schedules for them and chastising them for breaking rules and trying to reconcile them when they get into a fight. Like a mother, she worries when they are in danger, rushes to them when they are hurt, reprimands them for their bad language, and praises them for their successes.
Hermione is also a very bossy person. She has strong opinions and high morals, thinks she always knows best, and doesn't hesitate to tell others what to do. This comes out unmistakably in her first meeting with the boys. Hermione orders Ron to do his spell, criticizes them for fighting, tells them to put their robes on, etc. Soon she is ordering Harry not to fly after Malfoy and the Remembrall and not to duel with Malfoy, and criticizing Ron's attempts at Wingardium Leviosa.

This bossiness and motherliness is an essential part of Hermione's nature. It remains pronounced even as she "lightens up" over the course of the five books we have seen so far. In Book Five, Sirius, Ron, and Harry explicitly compare her to Molly Weasley, and we see her just as opinionated and domineering as ever. She is described as speaking "bossily" at the DA meeting, she is an authoritarian Prefect who tells off first years for "giggling too loudly" before exams, she gives Ron and Harry extremely annoying (and bossy) talking planners, and we see her nagging Harry unmercifully about such things as his plan to speak to Sirius and his failure to practice Occlumency.
Nor has Hermione stopped her habit of physically pushing the boys – and especially Harry – around. In Book Five, we see several examples of Hermione touching Harry and Ron either bossily or protectively.

* Get over here,' muttered Hermione, tugging at Harry's wrist and pulling him back into a recess. - Order of the Phoenix
* Harry, stop it, come away. She grabbed his arm and pulled, but he resisted. - Order of the Phoenix
* Hermione prodded Ron in the back to make him hurry. - Prisoner of Azkaban
* Hermione seized it, pulled the door open, and pushed Harry hard in the back, forcing him inside. - Goblet of Fire

There is nothing wrong with being bossy. The problem is that Harry, as he is described in canon, reacts badly to people who try to dominate him. Harry grew up being ordered about by people like the Dursleys who exerted authority over him without love, or even good intentions. As a result of this (or possibly because he was born that way), Harry is strikingly insubordinate and independent, strong-willed, and defiant to authority figures such as Professor Snape, Professor Grubbly-Plank, and Professor Umbridge. Compared to the other students around him, Harry says words like 'sir' and 'ma'am' less often, interrupts adults more often, and shows more anger when being ordered around by authority figures. Even though Harry knows that Hermione loves him and has his best interests at heart, he finds her bossiness horrible to bear. Even when he knows she is right and complies with her demands, he does so with open resentment.

Harry's first line of defense against Hermione's interfering ways is to act as if he doesn't hear her, and to avoid her as much as possible.
When Hermione is in her bossy mode and avoiding and ignoring her is not enough, Harry resorts to lying and sneaking around to avoid her wrath. This is normal behavior from a child to a parent. It is common for teenagers to deceive their parents, with the justification that their parents are unreasonable and it is the only way they can get freedom, or that they are only trying to spare their parents pain. This is not common behavior with a friend or a girlfriend/boyfriend. As a Last Resort, Harry Explodes Angrily at Hermione. Because Harry does not like arguments and open conflict, he usually won't openly defy Hermione's bossing until he's at the end of his rope, or until something of utmost importance is at stake. At these times, Harry's anger can be frightening.

Harry's negative response to Hermione's bossy nature is contrasted in these books with Ron's more mixed response. We have already seen how Hermione's arguments spur Ron to argue back to her rather than to avoid her as Harry does. Having grown up with a dominating but loving mother in a loud and argumentative family, Ron doesn't resent authority figures as much as Harry does and has no particular aversion to rows. He freely tells Hermione "don't nag" or "skip the lecture" from the first book onward cutting her off before she builds up steam (strikingly reminiscent of George's advice about handling Molly). Ron seems to enjoy a good spirited argument, as often as not.
And Ron has other tools in his arsenal, as well. He is particularly adept at teasing Hermione, and derailing her momentum with a shrewd thrust at a vulnerable point among many other instances. Ron is also able to divert Hermione with a compliment, a joke, or a change of subject. Ron also has an advantage over Harry in that he seems to have more time and energy to spare for dealing with Hermione.

In fact, Ron is so much more adept at dealing with Hermione's dominating side than Harry is that we often see Harry depending on Ron to shield him from Hermione's forcefulness. We see Ron step in to "protect" Harry numerous times.

When Ron is not around, Harry lacks the amusement and feels only the annoyance. He needs Ron to help him enjoy Hermione's company when there nothing special going on.
The problem with Harry's response to Hermione's bossy side, as opposed to Ron's response, is that it work more as a rebellious teenager's response to a protective parent than an equal friendship or love relationship. In contrast, Ron and Hermione argue with each other and tease each other freely and equally. Theirs is a stormy relationship, but an equal one.

Harry's and Hermione's relationship is unequal in another way. Hermione worries about Harry, thinks about Harry, supports Harry, and helps Harry far more than Harry worries about her, thinks about her, supports her, or helps her. While this is perfectly normal and healthy in a parent-child type of relationship, and perfectly acceptable for a hero-sidekick type of relationship, it would be disturbing and unsatisfying in a love relationship.

Ron, in contrast, displays a consistent and vigorous interest in Hermione's life. He is, of course, intensely interested in Hermione's feelings for both Gilderoy Lockhart and Viktor Krum. He is curious about what Hermione's secret doings in the library are, and he expresses frustration at her secrecy. He is curious enough about her heavy course schedule in Book Three that he actively investigates it. He asks her questions about her preparations for the Yule Ball, her smaller teeth, her planned skiing trip, her reasons for taking Muggle Studies, her reasons for dropping Muggle Studies, her Christmas present for Kreacher, her reason for setting out knitted hats, her Ancient Runes exam, her SPEW badges, her letter, and many other things. We see Ron "mother" Hermione almost as much as she mothers him. In Book Four, he worries that her campaign against Rita Skeeter will backfire on her, and he notices and comments upon her eating habits.
In other words he care, notice and feel much more for Hermione than Harry ever would.

While all three of them care for each others immensely, all feelings differ. Harry sees Hermione as an older sister and a kind of mother figure and Ron as his best mate and brother. Ron sees Harry as his best mate and brother, but Hermione as something much more as we see in book six and seven.

Again, the relationship between Ron and Hermione may be stormy, but it is equal. They try to boss each other around. They tease each other. They worry about each other. They show interest in each other's non-Harry related lives.
In contrast, both Ron and Hermione pay far more attention to Harry than Harry does to them. Both of them support him in his endeavours far more than he supports them in theirs, and they worry about him constantly. The difference is extreme.
This is not a problem in the structure of the story. Harry is the hero, and he needs all the help and aid his two best friends can give him. It is not a character flaw, either. Harry's problems truly are much worse than Hermione's or Ron's. But it is a problem if you try to imagine Harry involved in a love relationship with either of his two best friends.

It is perfectly clear. Harry loves and admires Hermione because she is smart, brave, talented, quick thinking, sensible, hard working, generous, and loyal. He knows he can trust her and depend on her to support him. But that also happens to be his exact feelings. There are no hidden romantic feelings or wants for her. He sees, loves and cares for Hermione for who and what she is too him. A great friend, a wonderful sister figure and some one he can lean to. Like some kind of mother figure.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion

Hermione performs an essential role in Harry's life and gives him support he desperately needs, both as a motherless boy and as the target of a deadly villain. But she can't be Harry's mother-surrogate and his sister-surrogate and his friend and his sidekick and his girlfriend. Not only that, but Harry can not come to love Hermione in a way he do not feel, need, see or want her. She if of no interest to him romantically. At all. She is simply not what Harry wants and that is a fact based on his feelings, views, opinion and him as a person.

Harry needs someone he is sexually attracted to. He needs someone who will talk cheerfully to him, rather than lecturing and arguing. He needs someone he doesn't resent for her bossiness and he isn't tempted to avoid and deceive. He needs someone to play with – someone who will laugh at his tension relieving quips and make him laugh in return.
And what Harry needed, wanted and felt is whet he got in Ginny.

Ginny and Harry shares interests, opinions, morals, humor, love for sports, they are both persons of action and they are hotheaded.
When it comes down to it, aside from that they love each others and find the other to be physically and sexually attractive, they match in personality. In their romantic relationship, they are also having fun and doing things on same level and of same interests. Ginny in some ways pretty much is a female ginger version of Harry.
I support canon because I have actually read the books and seen what they feel and whom they love.
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Remustonks

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Post July 1st, 2017, 12:32 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Thank you torrent95. I try as best as I can without being rude. Also thank you Librarian, I love reading your post because you do such a good job at putting all the facts out there.
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torrent56

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Post December 5th, 2017, 6:48 am

carrying over discussion with ZookTheMagpie

Hi ZookTheMagpie,
Continuing on from our discussion in the overrated character thread linked below:
https://www.potterforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=59200&p=2043670#p2043670

I would like to hear why you think Ron isn't "good enough" for Hermione as if relationships are supposed to be ticking a series of boxes and why it isn't elitism.
ZookTheMagpie wrote:You remember as I'm sure you do that for most of the books they've been arguing and fighting, going months without talking. And still they fall hopelessly in love at the end, marries and have kids.

I remember them bickering a few times beforehand because of unresolved sexual tension and because Hermione will argue with just about everyone she meets. Therefore what the supposed issues you said will apply to anyone paired off with canon Hermione.

As for the supposed fighting, they only had two big fights that went on for months without them talking out of seven years. The most serious of them is because of misunderstanding over past lovers which has been resolved and closed. Therefore unless you're suggesting one of them have an affair I don't know why this continues to be an issue.
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Grrarrggh

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Post December 5th, 2017, 10:01 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Their major fights happened when they were CHILDREN. Why do so many people insist on treating them like mature adults who have lots of prior romantic relationships to learn from?
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Ponder

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Post December 5th, 2017, 7:54 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Grrarrggh wrote:Their major fights happened when they were CHILDREN. Why do so many people insist on treating them like mature adults who have lots of prior romantic relationships to learn from?


Thank you!
It is a problem with all the relationships in the books, especially the less than perfect once. We see characters from the age of eleven to seventeen/eighteen. That is the age were you still pull piggy tails and make dumb mistakes. At the end of the books they are no complete grown ups. Their characters are still forming and changing to some degree.
A Thaum is the basic unit of magical strength. It has been universally established as the amount of magic needed to create one small white pigeon or three normal-sized billiard balls.
chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized
~ Terry Pratchett
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Post December 5th, 2017, 8:07 pm

Re: Ron and Hermione

Ponder wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:Their major fights happened when they were CHILDREN. Why do so many people insist on treating them like mature adults who have lots of prior romantic relationships to learn from?


Thank you!
It is a problem with all the relationships in the books, especially the less than perfect once. We see characters from the age of eleven to seventeen/eighteen. That is the age were you still pull piggy tails and make dumb mistakes. At the end of the books they are no complete grown ups. Their characters are still forming and changing to some degree.


I'm surprised that cooties wasn't brought up in the series, lol. :)
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torrent56

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Post December 6th, 2017, 9:54 am

Re: Ron and Hermione

Ponder wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:Their major fights happened when they were CHILDREN. Why do so many people insist on treating them like mature adults who have lots of prior romantic relationships to learn from?


Thank you!
It is a problem with all the relationships in the books, especially the less than perfect once. We see characters from the age of eleven to seventeen/eighteen. That is the age were you still pull piggy tails and make dumb mistakes. At the end of the books they are no complete grown ups. Their characters are still forming and changing to some degree.

Agreed. It seems that for some people if a character made a mistake as a teenager which they regretted they are scum for life. But then suddenly when it comes to their favourite character who makes the same mistakes it's completely forgiven.
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