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Shadowed Light

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Post May 18th, 2017, 7:41 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

You clearly want to discredit their friendship huh? Hinny fans really are more desperate. Ron is Harry's best friend, his brother and he was friends with him before Hermione. Ron was the first to accept Harry as a friend. It took a troll for them to become friends with Hermione remember? Naturally, he's closer with Ron but that doesn't mean he isn't close with Hermione. Harry is bad with emotions - he doesn't show them well, he didn't really show it that well when he broke up with Ginny for a noble reason either so you can't say he doesn't care about Hermione. Did they have fights? Certainly. But if they didn't care about one another, he wouldn't feel physical pain when Hermione was being tortured. She wouldn't freak out every time he got in danger.

The dancing scene is something JKR said herself she hadn't written about but strongly felt about - so if you're dismissing that, you're just as ignorant as if I said that Harmony was canon. So yes she didn't write but she felt strongly about it. Well, I didn't even consider Harmony once Romione was canon even if I didn't agree with it. I love Ron/Harry so that was my first ship. But when JKR's article came out, I couldn't help but see hints for Harmony too. And Hermione realises that later on - they have different personalities but there are moments they get along. She admits first year that there are more important things than books and cleverness. I'm sorry - ship Hinny if you want I'm not stopping you but I ship Harmony and always will because to me they work better together.

We don't know that because we weren't shown after the war :) Harry was in danger - he was a target of a dark wizard, he needed the most attention. Yet he worried about both Ron and Hermione, even trying to dissuade them from going. Godric Hollow still can't be discredited because it was a very personal heartfelt moment in Harry's life no matter how sweet the silver doe scene is. The time turner chapter showed they got along well when it came to a mission and that Hermione can stop Harry from being downright impulsive. Of course, Harry would be angry but she did protect him and this is when she didn't believe Sirius was in any real danger. She could have not gone.
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Post May 18th, 2017, 7:20 pm

Re: Harry/Hermione

We support Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione because it is what has been created. There is more than enough evidence tk support both of these in the source material...why? Because that is how the books were written.

You are caught up on Harry/Hermione because you feel that that is the way the books should have been written. For every moment you point out that supports this there are a ton more that discount it.
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Post May 19th, 2017, 12:25 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

And my last thing before I leave - the author herself says she regrets not pairing Harry and Hermione. Alas, I leave you to your Hinny and Romione and bid farewell. Does anyone have a method to delete my account? Or should I just owl a mod?
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Post May 19th, 2017, 1:44 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Shadowed Light wrote:the author herself says she regrets not pairing Harry and Hermione.


No, she never said that.
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Post May 19th, 2017, 2:05 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Whatever you want to believe then :) Either way it doesn't matter anymore however if one of you would be so kind to guide me how to delete this account I'd be grateful.
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Post May 19th, 2017, 4:53 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Shadowed Light wrote:Whatever you want to believe then :) Either way it doesn't matter anymore however if one of you would be so kind to guide me how to delete this account I'd be grateful.


http://www.hypable.com/jk-rowling-ron-h ... interview/

No where in that interview does JKR say "I regret not pairing Harry and Hermione".
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Post May 19th, 2017, 6:40 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Cya ShadowedLight....its been a...well not a pleasure. The opposite of that. Thats what this been.
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Post May 19th, 2017, 10:16 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Meh, I actually enjoyed reading the last couple of pages. I don't agree with the Harry/Hermione pairing at all but fair play to Shadowed Light for not backing down. Some of the points put forward were actually quite good.
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Post May 19th, 2017, 11:00 pm

Re: Harry/Hermione

Guess I should add one last post in response to Shadow Light's somewhat melodramatic posts.

When did I say they are not best friends? They are best friends, but it doesn’t change the fact that there were quite a few times when Harry was avoiding or deceiving Hermione because he resents her interference, especially in books 4-6. However, it’s clear that Harry/Ron was an easier friendship than either of the boy’s friendship with Hermione which you agreed as well so kudos for acknowledging it.

Shadowed Light wrote:Harry is bad with emotions - he doesn't show them well, he didn't really show it that well when he broke up with Ginny for a noble reason either so you can't say he doesn't care about Hermione.


I agree with this and Harry should have considered Ginny a lot more (and I find the fact that Harry just snogged her in front of everyone without even bothering to check that she is still into him to be self-centred to be honest).

Actually I am not comparing Ginny with Hermione at all, but more how Harry and Ron treated Hermione differently, so your point is pretty irrelevant to what I was saying. I am just rebutting against the fallacy that Harry cared for Hermione far more than Ron did that a lot of haters believe.

So you are contradicting yourself now because before you said Harry never made Hermione cry and now he did but that’s OK? :roll: Right.

Shadowed Light wrote:We don't know that because we weren't shown after the war :)

We don’t need to. I can see that by comparing Ron’s attention to Hermione and Harry’s lack of attention to Hermione before Voldemort returned at the end of GoF. The only time that I can think of where Harry paid more attention to Hermione than Ron is after Molly unfairly sent those tiny Easter eggs to Hermione and that’s it. Harry was also far more annoyed and resentful of Hermione's bossiness than Ron ever was.

Personally I feel Harry really should show more gratitude to Hermione for sticking around with him and spend more time with her when she was estranged from Ron in the cat-rat fight. However it’s objectively true that Harry does not found Hermione fun to spend time with alone when compared with Ron or Ginny. The best examples would be when he was estranged from Ron and he spent the whole timing pinning after Ron in GoF or how he preferred to spend all his time with Ron during the cat-rat fight.

If they shared such a special connection during the time-turner scene, why aren’t we show instances where they were happy and content to be in each other’s presence especially if they had to wait for over an hour?

Shadowed Light wrote:The dancing scene is something JKR said herself she hadn't written about but strongly felt about - so if you're dismissing that, you're just as ignorant as if I said that Harmony was canon. So yes she didn't write but she felt strongly about it.

She felt strongly about it – and you could say it means Harry/Hermione could have happened and I would agree. But I would also ask what does that prove?

Shadowed Light wrote:Well, I didn't even consider Harmony once Romione was canon even if I didn't agree with it. I love Ron/Harry so that was my first ship. But when JKR's article came out, I couldn't help but see hints for Harmony too. And Hermione realises that later on - they have different personalities but there are moments they get along. She admits first year that there are more important things than books and cleverness. I'm sorry - ship Hinny if you want I'm not stopping you but I ship Harmony and always will because to me they work better together.


Actually if you’re going to interpret both the platonic Harry/Ron and Harry/Hermione scenes that as romantic, that’s your choice and isn’t double standard so there’s nothing for me to add there. If you ship both Harry/Ron and Harry/Hermione I don’t think there is anyone who wants to stop you from doing it.

I was comparing Harry/Hermione with Ron/Hermione and frankly I don’t think working well in dangerous situation is enough to maintain a relationship. They also need to be shown to be able to enjoy each other’s presence and have fun, which very rarely happens with Harry/Hermione. If you think they work better together, could you tell me why is it that they were both miserable when they were both alone without Ron around? Also could you tell me how is Harry going to deal with Hermione’s argumentativeness and bossy nature when he has clearly shown in the books that he resents it? I don’t think you can.

Shadowed Light wrote:The time turner chapter showed they got along well when it came to a mission and that Hermione can stop Harry from being downright impulsive.

So can Ginny. Harry can also work with Ron really well in a mission so all it really show is that he can work well with his friends when it comes to missions, but that doesn’t equate they will work well in a relationship which requires a bit more than that. Unfortunately it also showed Harry was annoyed with Hermione even when he knew she was right (and that is not mentioning all those times he ignored or lied to her). Now compare this with Harry’s reaction in the lucky you scene in OotP when Ginny reprimanded him.


Shadowed Light wrote:Of course, Harry would be angry but she did protect him and this is when she didn't believe Sirius was in any real danger. She could have not gone.

Except he had any words or thoughts or gratitude to Hermione for getting them out of Umbridge’s grasp. Ginny, Neville and Luna all didn’t have to go but they did so what is so special about Hermione?

Also Shadowed Light, you did not produce any evidence that Rowling regretted not pairing Harry and Hermione in any interview, just like you couldn’t produce any evidence that Ginny had sex with Michael or Dean. There’s nothing more to add here.

Like The Fifth Marauder said, Shadowed Light did put up some good points at least compared to many Harmonians I encountered.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 12:09 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

stefanvh wrote:
Shadowed Light wrote:the author herself says she regrets not pairing Harry and Hermione.


No, she never said that.


I'm.. pretty sure that she said something along those lines, actually...
Last edited by GellertGPhoenix on May 20th, 2017, 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 1:35 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

I just don't see the point in arguing anymore to be honest - because I have many scenes I can point out where Harry and Hermione get along well...their fight in HBP I believe was just an excuse to say Ginny is the better match for Harry. But either way, I don't care. I will always ship Harmony in the end.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 4:05 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Thing is, I can sort of get behind a Harmony shipping... but in the end, I feel Harry and Ginny are soulmates... so while Harry and Hermione may be compatible, I still lean towards Harry/Ginny, and I think that Harry and Hermione have a strong bond as friends...

Oh yes, and *cough* in the words of the wise... "There is no need for the bickering and the condecension. Knock it the fuck off."

Seriously guys. I don't think anyone is saying that Ginny was a slut, or that Hermione was perfect... or whatever. They were teenagers, let's be real.
The way I see it is this: There is canon and there is subcanon and there is speculation.
Hinny is canon, Harmony is... possibly subcanon, but more likely in the speculation realm, and can be interpreted in different ways.
Whether you see Hinny or Harmony, neither interpretation is wrong. The book reads how the book reads, and it will sound different to different people.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 5:41 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Well....i guess you could say that neither is wrong, but one is more right than the other.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:02 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

GinChaser wrote:Well....i guess you could say that neither is wrong, but one is more right than the other.

That's subjective.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:04 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Is it though?
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:43 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Yes. Understand this. the author has no power. once the book is in the hands of the readers, the authors opinion doesn't necessarily matter, because the world becomes the readers's. Any way that a reader interprets a book is the author's doing. So if JKR didn't want Harmony to be shipped by some people... then that's partially her fault, if she's giving them something to go off of.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:58 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

GellertGPhoenix wrote:Yes. Understand this. the author has no power. once the book is in the hands of the readers, the authors opinion doesn't necessarily matter, because the world becomes the readers's. Any way that a reader interprets a book is the author's doing. So if JKR didn't want Harmony to be shipped by some people... then that's partially her fault, if she's giving them something to go off of.


This is true and it's also one of the reasons why I consider fanfictions that does not comply with the interview information from JKR to be canon compliant as long as they don't contradict the books and I will do my best to not use any interview information in debates against other people.

I think nobody on this forum is disputing anyone's right to ship Harmony or any other ship. It's only when people start selectively using JKR's quotes to bolster their ship (whilst ignoring anything against it) and start bashing the other characters who get in the way of their ship then there is a backlash from other people. That is all I have got to say for now.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 7:19 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

Honestly...there is a few moments that I can see a Harry and Hermione relationship, the biggest one being Godric's Hollow. It was a very tender moment...

However.

There are so many other moments in the series that contradict that. For instance, pretty much ALL of half blood prince...and the next time you take a read through the books pay attention to how Ginny is described. JK Rowling uses vastly different wording when it comes to Ginny than Hermione.

I have read these books countless times(probably not a 100...but 15 for sure), and without that article or the misguided preconception that the male hero has to get the female hero, there isnt a whole lot there. There is so much more evidence on Canon that supports H/G and H/R than H/H. That's not an opinion...that's a fact. I honestly dont see how you can say that it ahoukdhave been H/H from the source material alone.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 9:52 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

GellertGPhoenix wrote:
stefanvh wrote:
Shadowed Light wrote:the author herself says she regrets not pairing Harry and Hermione.


No, she never said that.


I'm.. pretty sure that she said something along those lines, actually...


That's what the FAKE NEWS media said (especially the failing CNN), but the only thing she said in favour of the couple was that "in some ways H/Hr are a better fit" [compared to Ron/Hermione]. Sad!

GellertGPhoenix wrote:Yes. Understand this. the author has no power. once the book is in the hands of the readers, the authors opinion doesn't necessarily matter, because the world becomes the readers's. Any way that a reader interprets a book is the author's doing.


Except that it is the author who has spent decades writing the books, immersed in the world-building, developing the characters and the plot. Thus I do think that the author's opinion would count for necessarily more.

GellertGPhoenix wrote:So if JKR didn't want Harmony to be shipped by some people... then that's partially her fault, if she's giving them something to go off of.


No, because people will try and find anything to support their ship, even if the actual interactions between the two characters would be contrary to that interpretation. This can be seen even in other fanon ships, such as Harry/Draco. Look, I have some of my own fanon ships (such as Ginny/Luna) but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to say it has more evidence and is better than the canon.

GinChaser wrote:Honestly...there is a few moments that I can see a Harry and Hermione relationship, the biggest one being Godric's Hollow. It was a very tender moment...


I think the last book where JKR could have steered it towards Harry/Hermione by changing their personalities slightly but still be consistent with the previous two books would have been Prisoner of Azkaban. However, from Goblet of Fire onwards, everything is leading towards R/Hr and to a lesser extent H/G (that would be in Order of the Phoenix that that happens).

GinChaser wrote:There are so many other moments in the series that contradict that. For instance, pretty much ALL of half blood prince...


I think it's particularly GoF and OotP that nails the H/Hr in the coffin. Particularly the moment when Harry think that spending time with Hermione just isn't the same as with Ron.

GinChaser wrote:and the next time you take a read through the books pay attention to how Ginny is described. JK Rowling uses vastly different wording when it comes to Ginny than Hermione.


Exactly, even years before Harry falls in love with her, JKR uses much more flattering descriptions and imagery to describe Ginny's appearance and movements. For example: "a pair of bright brown eyes" "her face glowing like the setting sun" "a long mane of red hair" "curled up like a cat". There isn't anything comparable for Hermione. Harry describes her in ways that portray her as looking coarse, unremarkable, and slightly untamed at times.

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Post May 20th, 2017, 1:34 pm

Re: Harry/Hermione

There is only one thing you said that I disagree with, and thats the Authors opinion.

I'm with Gellert on this one, once the book is out there and published, like most books, it is open to intrepretation. For me, there isnt much that she can say interviews that changes my intrepretation. Ie.) Voldemort was in love with Bellatrix Lestrange. Now she can do interview after interview that says otherwise...but imo, that isnt the character that made it to the page. I also refuse to believe that James was a chaser when it leads us to believe in OotP that he was a seeker. Nothing JKR says, unless she writes a marauders prequel and he is in fact a chaser, will change that for me.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:35 pm

Re: Harry/Hermione

To be fair, I do think that interviews have value, and I do value JKR's opinion. I think that interviews and the like should open our minds to new ideas and possibilities that we hadn't considered before... at the end of the day, however, our interpretation is our interpretation.

As for they Harry/Draco remark... I thought of that too. Here is the difference between Hermione/Harry and Draco/Harry.
Hermione/Harry is speculation.
Draco/Harry is wishful thinking.

Whether it came to fruition or not, there was at one point probably something between Harry and Hermione- whether it was a fleeting thought, a consideration, a tender moment...

Whereas with Harry/Draco... there is nothing. Absolutely nothing.
It's a poor comparison.
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Post May 20th, 2017, 6:57 pm

Re: Harry/Hermione

GinChaser wrote:There is only one thing you said that I disagree with, and thats the Authors opinion.

I'm with Gellert on this one, once the book is out there and published, like most books, it is open to intrepretation. For me, there isnt much that she can say interviews that changes my intrepretation. Ie.) Voldemort was in love with Bellatrix Lestrange. Now she can do interview after interview that says otherwise...but imo, that isnt the character that made it to the page. I also refuse to believe that James was a chaser when it leads us to believe in OotP that he was a seeker. Nothing JKR says, unless she writes a marauders prequel and he is in fact a chaser, will change that for me.


I also understand your point of view. But I think it's helpful to consider two variants of JKR's statements: the ones where she gives more insight into the things that already happen in the books, and the ones where she just adds something completely new to the series but we're supposed to accept because JKR says it. So for me the first variation should be prioritized.

GellertGPhoenix wrote:As for they Harry/Draco remark... Hermione/Harry is speculation. Draco/Harry is wishful thinking. Whether it came to fruition or not, there was at one point probably something between Harry and Hermione- whether it was a fleeting thought, a consideration, a tender moment...

Whereas with Harry/Draco... there is nothing. Absolutely nothing.
It's a poor comparison.


The Harry/Draco thing was simply an example to illustrate the wider point. And I would argue that Harry/Hermione is also wishful thinking, given that nothing romantically meaningful transpired between them (and in fact the opposite happens, since they consider each other as siblings as seen in DH).

When do you think there was something meaningful between Harry and Hermione? In the series Hermione is romantically involved or has feelings for Gilderoy Lockhart, Cedric, Viktor Krum, Cormac McLaggen and finally Ron. With Harry, it's Parvati, Cho, and Ginny. There would at least have been a hint of it somewhere in the books had that moment you talk of actually happened.
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Post May 21st, 2017, 2:27 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

There was a time when I was in love with my best friend. As it happens, a relationship with him turned out to be horrific, so now he's like my brother. It doesn't mean that those fleeting emotions weren't there... but I don't feel anything towards him anymore, apart from brotherly love... :D and I'm pretty sure he feels the same. We would be compatible... but at the same time, friendship is more comfortable, and healthier for both of us.
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Post May 21st, 2017, 6:00 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

While that sucks for you, it doesnt actually prove that this is the case for Harry and Hermione.
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Post May 21st, 2017, 7:00 am

Re: Harry/Hermione

GinChaser wrote:While that sucks for you, it doesnt actually prove that this is the case for Harry and Hermione.


There isn't really any proof for either argument. Both have valid claims.
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