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MadamPince

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Post January 18th, 2013, 6:23 pm

And that is an example of perfect parenting, Dobby.

Unfortunately, not everyone is like that. My mum says to me at least once a week that one day I'm going to make someone a fantastic wife.

Never has she said to me that I'm going to be a great lawyer, or an amazing teacher (or whatever the hell I decide I'm going to do after this silly degree). But my brothers are always encouraged to aim higher and become professionals.

It's not that my parents have ever said to me I can't do anything, it's just always been implied that I shouldn't.

And that's the attitude that's got to change imo.
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Post January 18th, 2013, 6:27 pm

MadamPince wrote:My mum says to me at least once a week that one day I'm going to make someone a fantastic wife.


It's the opposite with me, my mom always tells me I'll be a terrible wife - can't cook, don't like cleaning, etc. I love it, I'm not planning on slaving around in my own home.
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Arabella

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Post January 18th, 2013, 7:31 pm

Dobby2dmaX wrote:
MadamPince wrote:I didn't mean it in the traditional sense of equal rights...more what we are thought capable of.
I'm probably one of the least feminist people I know, I really don't give a rats arse, but it is annoying when you are constantly told that you can't do things as well as men.

It's not even men that have this mindset. Children are taught that girls can't be builders because that is a man's job. Girls are brought up with the knowledge that there are certain occupations that are more-or-less off limits to them.
The only thing that it is seen (somewhat) socially unacceptable for a man to do is to be a house husband.

It is something that is going to take a while to change, mainly because gender stereotypes are still being enforced and anyone who breaks the mould is thought of as weird and radical. I honestly doubt that I'll see women and men thought of in an equal way in my lifetime. There's too much history there.



On a slightly different note - I've never heard of a man dumbing himself down for a girl to like him. Only the other way round.
I've never seen a movie where there is a geeky boy who has to change to get the hot girl.

Just thank God that there is Hermione to provide a strong role model for young women. There needs to be more characters like Hermione to provide a role model for girls.

Well think of it this way, if all that is holding you back is people saying you're not capable of doing something rather than actively stopping you from doing it, Then nothing is really holding you back at all. That's the secret that some men, who do not want equality, are desperately trying to maintain. Men really don't have any real means left to stop women, it's a bag of hot air. The only way it works is if women believe it, so it's really the women who will have to poke through that. So whether you do that in your lifetime is up to you (you could do it right now :wink:). But it's almost as if all women are waiting for everybody else to make that step at the same time... In that case, you can wait a long time.

There is truth to that and yet it's not quite true when it's mostly men that think like HEAT who hold the hiring/promoting power.
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Post January 18th, 2013, 7:44 pm

Parade of the Sun wrote:
MadamPince wrote:My mum says to me at least once a week that one day I'm going to make someone a fantastic wife.


It's the opposite with me, my mom always tells me I'll be a terrible wife - can't cook, don't like cleaning, etc. I love it, I'm not planning on slaving around in my own home.


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DarkLordElliott

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Post January 18th, 2013, 9:56 pm

I think it's socially unacceptable when there's a male hair dresser.

I've never looked at a male hair dresser and gone, "He's straight." I've never seen a straight, male hair dresser in my life. They are all gay. Which is fine.

And don't feel bad Sarah, my family has never said anything encouraging to me about my future plans. I don't even think they've ever even said I'd be a good parent.
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Post January 19th, 2013, 1:37 am

MadamPince wrote:My mum says to me at least once a week that one day I'm going to make someone a fantastic wife.

Never has she said to me that I'm going to be a great lawyer, or an amazing teacher (or whatever the hell I decide I'm going to do after this silly degree). But my brothers are always encouraged to aim higher and become professionals.

It's not that my parents have ever said to me I can't do anything, it's just always been implied that I shouldn't.

And that's the attitude that's got to change imo.

Well then let me be the first. The way you stood firm in your choice when your friends wanted to go an smoke some weed, I'm sure you'll be one hell of a Teddy Buckland... :wink: You're smart (well at least a heck of a lot smarter than you give yourself credit for), funny and you have principles... Most lawyers struggle to get 1 out of 3 with that.

And as for your mum... In the song "Que sera, sera", the mother tells her daughter that 'the future's not ours to see' and she's right about that. The most important is your determination and if you have that, what other people think (or imply) you can and can't do doesn't really matter.

And sure those kinds of (subconscious) signals from parents can make children grow up with self-doubt, but self-doubt can also be cured fortunately. The best way to do that is by victory... just take on a fear or doubt and beat the crap out of it. Like I say in my sig: The most stupid thing to fear is fear itself, because fear either keeps you alive or keeps you from living. The first is your friend and should be embraced. The second is your enemy and should be faced head on. You really can't lose then, because the only failure is in not trying.

Oh and the next time your mother hints that you will make someone a fantastic (can't help hearing Christopher Eccleston say that :wink:) wife, just reply dryly that you're sure about that and that he will probably make you a good houseman too :P

Sorry about the barrage of clichés... since my daughter moved out, I don't have the same outlet for them anymore, so they tend to build up. If you or somebody else needs some more confirmation or reassurance, there's more where that came from. :wink:

Arabella wrote:There is truth to that and yet it's not quite true when it's mostly men that think like HEAT who hold the hiring/promoting power.

I wouldn't quite put it that extreme (actually feel a bit insulted by that), but unfortunately I have to admit there is some truth to it.

On the other hand, history has shown that young civilizations that are toughened by hardship tend to overthrow those that have grown complacent, so I think women already have the upper hand and mentality like that of HEAT is some sort of last spasm of resistance of one that is already conquered (which can be pretty violent nonetheless).

All I hope is that our society will not tip through to the other side, where we get a world dominated by women, because that's not going to be better. That's just unbalance to the other side.

Like I said before: Nothing is smarter that men and women, working together (I'll stick to that)
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Arabella

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Post January 19th, 2013, 6:25 am

Didn't mean to imply all men think that way, and I think that kind of thinking is definitely becoming less common. As more and more women are given a chance to prove their capability in high-level positions, people are more willing to put them in them.
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Nucky Luciano

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Post January 19th, 2013, 7:07 am

Women should control the world.. There wouldn't be wars, just a bunch of countries not talking to each other.. :lol:
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Lila Bard

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Post January 19th, 2013, 7:24 am

Punisher wrote:Women should control the world.. There wouldn't be wars, just a bunch of countries not talking to each other.. :lol:

Plagiarism! :P
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Nucky Luciano

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Post January 19th, 2013, 2:00 pm

No matter its still true :P
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Lila Bard

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Post January 19th, 2013, 2:19 pm

I doubt it, but that's okay.
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Professor Squirrel

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Post January 19th, 2013, 2:47 pm

I agree. Ever seen girls get in a fight? And I can't say they're much less vindictive. Quite the opposite really: it'll be a bloodbath :wink:
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Nucky Luciano

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Post January 19th, 2013, 3:42 pm

Dobby2dmaX wrote:I agree. Ever seen girls get in a fight? And I can't say they're much less vindictive. Quite the opposite really: it'll be a bloodbath :wink:


Depends but normally woman don't fight, its just yelling and screamin.. :lol: But yeah if the right two get in a fight it is kind of a bloodbath..
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MadamPince

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Post January 19th, 2013, 8:34 pm

Punisher wrote:Depends but normally woman don't fight, its just yelling and screamin.. :lol: But yeah if the right two get in a fight it is kind of a bloodbath..


You've clearly never been to Plymouth on a Friday night, my friend. A girl once grabbed my hair and threw me on the floor because I accidentally bumped into her in a club and split the tiniest bit of my drink on her arm.


Thanks, Dobby! I'll have any of your excess morale boosting! It's not that I need it, It's just always nice to have someone big you up every now and then!
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Nucky Luciano

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Post January 19th, 2013, 9:04 pm

MadamPince wrote:
Punisher wrote:Depends but normally woman don't fight, its just yelling and screamin.. :lol: But yeah if the right two get in a fight it is kind of a bloodbath..


You've clearly never been to Plymouth on a Friday night, my friend. A girl once grabbed my hair and threw me on the floor because I accidentally bumped into her in a club and split the tiniest bit of my drink on her arm.


Thanks, Dobby! I'll have any of your excess morale boosting! It's not that I need it, It's just always nice to have someone big you up every now and then!


No I've never been to Plymouth hun.. Well I'm not saying these stuff don't happen but still males are more violent than females.. I'm from Balkan hun, the place where memory of Yugoslavian war is very much alive.. Fights in pubs is just an every day thing..
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Post January 21st, 2013, 1:11 am

Re:

la belle dame sans merci wrote:
King James wrote:Women in America have had equal rights for some time now, yet I fail to see a woman achieve more than Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, or Warren Buffett. How come? Cuz they ain't got it.

Success ≠ Intelligence


But intelligence has something to do with how successful one can be. Men are more successful, and are smarter. That's how it is and will be, in my opinion, forever.

Parade of the Sun wrote:
King James wrote:The main doctors, politicians, lawyers, businessman, and engineers are all men.


Mitt Romney is the main Republican politician, yet he's a moron. Your argument is invalid.


Mitt Romney is not a moron. You may disagree with his views, but he is nowhere close to being considered a moron. He's a former Harvard graduate, and an amazing businessman who was also a pretty legit Governor. I don't agree with the GOP's views but he was an okay man.
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Post January 21st, 2013, 1:14 am

Re: Re:

King James wrote:Mitt Romney is not a moron. You may disagree with his views, but he is nowhere close to being considered a moron. He's a former Harvard graduate, and an amazing businessman who was also a pretty legit Governor. I don't agree with the GOP's views but he was an okay man.


(...) Mr Romney brought up an incident at the weekend when his wife’s aircraft was forced to make an emergency landing.
He mused that she would have coped better if she was able to breathe outside air during the fire.
"I appreciate the fact that she is on the ground, safe and sound. And I don't think she knows just how worried some of us were," Mr Romney said, according to the LA Times. "When you have a fire in an aircraft, there's no place to go, exactly, there's no – and you can't find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don't open. I don't know why they don't do that. It's a real problem. So it's very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she's safe and sound."

source


He's a moron.
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Post January 21st, 2013, 1:16 am

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

See, I have a problem fully appreciating the seriousness of girl fights. I always am just secretly hoping that they accidentally start ripping each others' clothes off before deciding that they'd rather make out than beat each ther up...
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Post January 21st, 2013, 6:04 am

Apples Smarter Than Pears?

This post was lost, but I saved it, so I'll just post it again... :wink:


Arabella wrote:Didn't mean to imply all men think that way, and I think that kind of thinking is definitely becoming less common. As more and more women are given a chance to prove their capability in high-level positions, people are more willing to put them in them.

Exactly. The women in this generation get chances a lot easier than those of the previous generation (and those had it easier still than the generation before them). We are really too far along for that process to be reversed because women have proven themselves in all areas already. So that archaic thinking will go the way of the dinosaurs one day, I'm sure.

MadamPince wrote:Thanks, Dobby! I'll have any of your excess morale boosting! It's not that I need it, It's just always nice to have someone big you up every now and then!

You're welcome. Dobby is glad to help :wink: It may have been in excess, but I meant every word of it.

And I was just wondering if you ever simply talked with you parents about the way their implications sound to you or make you feel? It doesn't sound to me like they are unsupportive, but rather that they don't realize it bothers you.

You said:

And that's the attitude that's got to change imo.


But that begins by making people, who do it subconsciously, aware of it. If you start in a circle that is close to you (like parents, friends and other family), your efforts to change things can actually achieve something. Focusing on the morality in the whole world at once will only lead to frustration because that is too big to be directly affected.

Trust me, I know... I've been a hopeless idealist my whole life (still am) and I wallowed in frustration for years because I was mad at the world for not seeing the obvious (for instance that we needed clean energy and reduce our consumption and waste). In those years I achieved absolutely nothing (except that I felt miserable about it) until I realized that change always has to start at a center and spread outward. That's when I knew I had to start much smaller if I actually was going to make a change. It was really a sort of "ask not what the world can do for you, but rather what you can do for the world" epiphany.

Right now, I'm running a small start up company with my best friend that advises companies and help them make the transition into the 21st century by reducing waste and energy usage with clever new systems. We're changing the world 1 company at a time, which is slow, but at least we have our small victories on a regular basis (which feels much better than being frustrated and miserable, let me tell you that... :wink: )
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Lila Bard

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Post January 21st, 2013, 9:09 am

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

Voldemort Was Framed wrote:See, I have a problem fully appreciating the seriousness of girl fights. I always am just secretly hoping that they accidentally start ripping each others' clothes off before deciding that they'd rather make out than beat each ther up...

I don't think girls like to get into physical fighsts as much as men do, but they do damage to others in different ways. They gossip, try to break up relationships, get between friends and ruin each others possessions. Anything, as long as they don't have to use their fists. And in war, the people who start it typically don't use their fists.

Edit.
So a friend of mine shared this video today, and I was wondering what you guys think. Looky here: http://www.ted.com/talks/colin_stokes_h ... B.facebook

I personally do not agree with everything this dude says. He implies it at several point in the video, but says it outright in the end: let's teach boys to live in a world in which women are in control. I think that goes way too far, but let's pretend he said, just for the fun of it, that the one in control does not necessarily have to be male, and that gender is not as important as any other qualities a person might have. Then, he kind of makes a good point. I did not see where he was going and was getting bored until he made a connection between actual problems in this world and the films he is analysing, at around 8:40. This is something I see, feel and experience, just in daily life. Is it really the result of films, media, and the gender roles subconsciously imposed on us?
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Professor Squirrel

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Post January 22nd, 2013, 4:17 pm

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

Nona wrote:
Voldemort Was Framed wrote:See, I have a problem fully appreciating the seriousness of girl fights. I always am just secretly hoping that they accidentally start ripping each others' clothes off before deciding that they'd rather make out than beat each ther up...

I don't think girls like to get into physical fighsts as much as men do, but they do damage to others in different ways. They gossip, try to break up relationships, get between friends and ruin each others possessions. Anything, as long as they don't have to use their fists. And in war, the people who start it typically don't use their fists.

I agree. I've seen a lot of fridaynights drunken fights, where the guys were fighting, but the girls had instigated it.

Nona wrote:Edit.
So a friend of mine shared this video today, and I was wondering what you guys think. Looky here: http://www.ted.com/talks/colin_stokes_h ... B.facebook

I personally do not agree with everything this dude says. He implies it at several point in the video, but says it outright in the end: let's teach boys to live in a world in which women are in control. I think that goes way too far, but let's pretend he said, just for the fun of it, that the one in control does not necessarily have to be male, and that gender is not as important as any other qualities a person might have. Then, he kind of makes a good point. I did not see where he was going and was getting bored until he made a connection between actual problems in this world and the films he is analysing, at around 8:40. This is something I see, feel and experience, just in daily life. Is it really the result of films, media, and the gender roles subconsciously imposed on us?

Interesting video and he makes some good points. But I also agree with you that he tends to make women into these inherently enlightened beings. The part about teaching our kids to cooperate is good though. I like that.
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Kazane Kagari

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Post January 26th, 2013, 11:35 pm

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

Okay, sorry, but I just need to get back to Mitt Romney. As an example of the Male race, I would not choose him as a figurehead due to the fact that one of his main goals was to basically take a women's rights away when it comes to abortion and rape. These are things that should not be stood for, even in the really old-fashioned states because a woman is a person and it should be her choice if she has a child, if she decides to raise it herself, and she decides to raise it. Would you want your rapist to have custody of your child, which you'd been forced to give birth to because of the laws against abortion? It's absolutely vile and to think that he nearly got in... It makes my blood run cold, and I don't even live in America.
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Post January 27th, 2013, 1:02 pm

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

If more females found it easier to worm their way to the top then this wouldn't be such a problem. But it's all about luck, something we don't appear to have, apparently.
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Post January 27th, 2013, 2:26 pm

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

It's because men, such as HEAT/HEATLE/King James, still believe that men are better than women instead of the truth, which is actually that intelligence varies from person to person and the gender has nothing to do with it. Unless you're in country where the females are not allowed an education and what not because in that case they can't be expected to know as much as the males.
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Post January 27th, 2013, 2:58 pm

Re: Females Smarter Than Males.

Ninja Fairy Cakes wrote:It's because men, such as HEAT/HEATLE/King James, still believe that men are better than women instead of the truth, which is actually that intelligence varies from person to person and the gender has nothing to do with it. Unless you're in country where the females are not allowed an education and what not because in that case they can't be expected to know as much as the males.


Well men ARE smarter than women. Like I said before, all of the top positions in the world are filled with men, not women. I mean of course there are a lot of smart women, but they'll never have the impact on society that men do.
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