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The Librarian

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Post June 28th, 2012, 7:30 pm

Do you believe in God?

Do you believe in God?
Last edited by The Librarian on January 6th, 2014, 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post June 28th, 2012, 8:49 pm

TheLibrarian, we are normally on the same page about a lot of things, friend, but I have to tell you that it smacks of extreme arrogance to opine that you know the answers to the universe and if everyone else would just mature (as you have) then they would see that this is the correct way to live life.

There is nothing inherently wrong with religion. There is however something inherently wrong with people. Human beings are selfish, corruptible, blood thirsty, hypocritical SOBs. That is not to say that all are, but generally speaking we are all capable of being so under the right circumstances. Every group has jerks, blaming religion for douchebags is like blaming your dog because your toast is burnt.

I do believe in God, 100%. My life is centered on it. If I die, and I find out that I was wrong I can rot comfortably knowing that my belief in God served to make me personally a better person. My belief in God keeps me mindful of the wonderful things in my life. My belief in God keeps me from killing myself or others by helping to lighten my darkest hours. My belief in God makes me strive to be a better person and to treat my neighbor as I would like to be treated.

You're painting with an extremely broad brush in your OP.
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Post June 28th, 2012, 9:39 pm

I do believe in God. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I'm overly religious, such as going to church every weekend, reading the Bible, or attending classes of mass daily. God's everywhere, watching us from all around the world, and as long as you obey most of His commandments, follow your conscience, and do the right things (in other terms), you're doing part of His job. I'll have to admit that sometimes I can't stop questioning whether God really exists or not, under the circumstances I'm under, at the time, and then I wonder what on Earth I could have done wrong to be under the position? Afterwards, something inside me thinks, believes, and knows that there's a God up there, who watches over you. Only I know His signals being sent to me. I can't seriously tell you most of the things, since I can barely understand them myself, but I'm talking truthly about how at many points, I see the messages that He sends me. I, as a matter of fact, respect those who are atheist, or are of any other religion, as long as they're good people. Now, do I believe other worlds besides life on this planet exist? Of course I do. To make it clear though, I believe it's not only Heaven and Hell that exist. I've thought about how some of the religious beliefs could be myths, but then again, I don't believe in myths myself, to tell you the truth. To wrap things up, I believe ALL things are done for a reason, that God gave me life, that the universe was created in His hands (and not scientifically!), that those who don't believe in God (and are good, sane humans) will see He's real after all, and that even if the world doesn't come to an end, there'll be something completely different, in which we all learn every secret relating to human beings, the creation of the world we're living on, and the causes and effects of everything that's taken place. I guess, the simple and fair answer to your question in this thread, is that yes, I believe in God. And whether you see or think the way others think or see God, is probably not the way I've described my overall explanation towards you. No pun intendeds are to be made, but I'm expressing my thoughts on this situation.
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Post June 28th, 2012, 9:40 pm

I am God.
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Post June 28th, 2012, 9:46 pm

I used to consider myself Christian because that's just what my parents are. They've always had me go to church, they've had me go to bible studies, etc. So I just figured I was Christian. Although in middle school I went to this bible-thumping believe-in-jesus-or-you're-going-to-hell school. In basically every single class they found a way to incorporate Christianity, even in classes that didn't need it, like speech. After a while I realized I didn't agree with what they were teaching, and over time it started bugging me more and more. Then after a while some things happened and I stopped believing in anything all together, because if such terrible things were happening, where was this all-powerful loving god that everyone talked about? So I became atheist for a while, but it still didn't feel right. Maybe it was all those years of believing in God, but I just couldn't figure out how the world came to be without someone or something planning and creating it. So then I became agnostic because I couldn't figure out if there was a god or not. Now I'm at the point where I don't know what religion I classify myself as, because I do believe in a higher being, but that's as far as my religion goes.
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Post June 28th, 2012, 9:50 pm

I believe in God 100 percent. The Lord is real and loving. He has done so much throughout my life that I know he is real. God created the heavens and the earth. He created the air we breathe and everything else in nature.

Life can be hard but that isn't Gods fault. The world is cold and Satan will try anyway to get us down. The devil can't beat God but that is why he goes after us.


I just try to tell people about God. You know what I think and am just letting you know. Forcing someone to believe isn't believing.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 12:33 am

I believe in God. But, I do not have a religion, I have a relationship. Which to me means that, I don't need to be a bible thumping prick in order to go to Heaven or to have a relationship. I do not count every person that is brought kicking and screaming to church as another point to Heaven. I believe that everyone has the right to make their own decision on things, and that if I want to Witness, I need to do so with my actions and words, not by cornering someone. But saying that I believe in God openly, to me means that I am willing to be (in the eyes to those who do not believe) a good person. That doesn't mean I am perfect, nor that I know everything there is to know. About anything. I believe that once Bible verse can be interpreted in 100 different ways, and that each person is going to get what they need out of the verse. If for nothing else a personal mindset at the time. There have been times when I have read a verse more than a year after I read it the first time and I have got something different out of it. It makes me a better person and it gives me comfort when I have nothing else. I do not feel anyone has the right to bash another person based on believes. Whether it be the choice in religion, sexuality, or the food they chose for dinner. Everyone makes decisions that will best impact them or those they love. I refuse to be a preachy type. I vote for who I feel would make the best leader, not just by what they say, but the actions they take. Not what religion they are. I feel that going out of your way to befriend someone to convert them is as bad as refusing to be their friend because they do not share your believes.
I have been dragged to church until my adult life, as well as getting what I would call "Spiritual harping" at home. My parents are considerably older. I have a brother who is old enough to be my father. My mother is licensed as a pastor. I was dragged to church despite my problems at the time with religion. My mother makes everything about God, but is still a self serving prick. It is almost to the point where we take her out to eat and she says "What would God like me to have for lunch, huh, what is the most expensive thing. " (Not quite but almost). Her answer to everything is 'pray about it". My brother come to my husband and I recently with money troubles and my mother tells him to pray for his finances. But the man is too lazy to get a job. Praying about your finances isn't going to do anything if you are not willing to work for it. It takes a lot for me to NOT resent God because of my mother. I do not feel that God, or anything for that matter should be used as a club to beat others into submission.
However, I do feel that throwing the Whole bible out because one person is ignorant and uses religion as a tool to hurt others is a bad practice. If for nothing else. Despite if you do not believe in God, there are a lot of things people can use as a life lesson. Like, treat others the way you wish to be treated. Keeping things like that in mind help you miss a lot of conflict as well as make you a better person, without being a Christian. That goes with any religion. There are things you can learn from any religion that can be put into practice to make you better. Valuing these proverbs for what they are is not ignorant, they make you wise. (As far as I am concerned)
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Post June 29th, 2012, 2:43 am

Vapormort wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong with religion. There is however something inherently wrong with people. Human beings are selfish, corruptible, blood thirsty, hypocritical SOBs. That is not to say that all are, but generally speaking we are all capable of being so under the right circumstances. Every group has jerks, blaming religion for douchebags is like blaming your dog because your toast is burnt.

THIS. Some atheists try to make it out that religion is the root of all evil. That if we just did away with it, we would all live in peace. As if there is something inherently evil in religion that corrupts people. Which is terribly ironic, because these same people think religion is nothing but man-made. Meaning anything belonging to religion comes from us. If people who would oppress etc didn't have religion to use as a tool, they would use something else.

Personally, I am agnostic. I think there must be something that created the universe, whether that something is still present, whether it cares a whit about us, I don't know. I don't think any one religion has it right, but that's not to say they are worthless. Because I was raised Christian I stick close to that understanding, though that does not mean I like/agree with every part of it. But it's what I know, and I think Jesus, real or fictional, was a pretty awesome dude I'm glad to learn from. It's sad that so many who call themselves Christians have lost sight of the spirit of his message, but sometimes people just suck whatever religion they do or do not profess.

Tali'Zorah nar Rayya wrote:I am God.

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Post June 29th, 2012, 2:52 am

Dyslexia!

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Post June 29th, 2012, 4:59 am

Vapormort wrote:TheLibrarian, we are normally on the same page about a lot of things, friend, but I have to tell you that it smacks of extreme arrogance to opine that you know the answers to the universe and if everyone else would just mature (as you have) then they would see that this is the correct way to live life.

Where and when did I say that I know the answers to the universe?
And when did it become arrogance to voice my opinion on this matter?

Every thing I said was my own opinion. This topic is about every one doing that. And it is in my opinion that as we mature as a race we will leave behind religions and myths. As we always have done. As we learn more and more about life and universe we mature and advance.

Vapormort wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong with religion. There is however something inherently wrong with people. Human beings are selfish, corruptible, blood thirsty, hypocritical SOBs. That is not to say that all are, but generally speaking we are all capable of being so under the right circumstances. Every group has jerks, blaming religion for douchebags is like blaming your dog because your toast is burnt.

I have never said that religion is inherently wrong. Only that I do not have much patience for it. I am well aware that religion has done alot of good for our race and that we would not be here with out it.

Vapormort wrote:I do believe in God, 100%. My life is centered on it. If I die, and I find out that I was wrong I can rot comfortably knowing that my belief in God served to make me personally a better person. My belief in God keeps me mindful of the wonderful things in my life. My belief in God keeps me from killing myself or others by helping to lighten my darkest hours. My belief in God makes me strive to be a better person and to treat my neighbor as I would like to be treated.

Really? For me it's my moral, compassion and the ability to love and being loved that makes me do all that. Not a faith.

Vapormort wrote:You're painting with an extremely broad brush in your OP.

Perhaps. But that is my opinion none the less.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 7:13 am

I'm a Muslim, so religion is probably one of the most important things in my life. I don't eat pork, which is a lot of common sense really, I don't drink at all without a possible glass of champagne on New Year's. (I'm underage anyway :lol: ). I go to the Mosque frequently, going through the services and all, but I don't have a firm stance on what I feel to be true or not. I pray a lot as well, and try to participate in Ramadan annually. So to say the least I'm definitely a religious person. However, I'm not someone that's crazy about god and thank him for everything. To tell you guys the truth, I just don't know. And I'm confused a lot. Heh.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 7:29 am

Eh, I've never been a big fan of religion. Believe me, I've lived in a Christian house all my life, had the Bible read to me, gone to Church, and all that stuff. I have to admit, some of it is really interesting and the idea of religion and god and what not is somewhat comforting at times.

However, I don't really belong to a religion. I do believe that there is a God or a higher power and what not, and that he/she/it created the universe and us and what not, but really I just don't see what's all to great about religion itself, as an organization. I can believe in God all I want on my own. Sure with other people it'll probably feel more comfortable, but I'm not a social being. Actually, I'm probably about 5% social. So I'm not all to keen to the ideas of Churches and what not. That, and the entire belief that you must live a Christian life to head to heaven, along with the baptisms and all that stuff. But then again, I've been raised in a Baptist house. Regardless, I don't see the point.

I'm an only child. Have no father, and my mother is near non-existent. I'm a loner. I've taught myself much of what I know and have done most of everything except downright pay the bills, which I'll be doing within the next year or two. I've seen plenty of guys who are great, but don't belong to a religion. Does that mean that they go to Hell, simply because they didn't go to Church, publicly acknowledge that Jesus was their savior, and used the Bible as a reference for living a good life? I would hope not, because these men are just great.

That and when it boils down to it, I simply don't care about religion. I have a relationship with God, despite not belonging to a religion. I'm curious by nature and have always asked the big 'Why' to life, trying to understand it. I have questions. They'll be answered sometime. If I end up going to hell for not belonging to a religion or living a 'Christian' life, then so be it. I'l bring a whole lot of sunscreen and probably all of Antarctica in a bottle. Maybe play poker with Superman. My entire goal in life is to live a good life, to be the type of man I want to be. A good man. Whether or not that follows traditional religious beliefs, I don't know nor care all to much.

[spoiler](Sorry if this seems a little disjointed and doesn't make sense. I tend to talk and write off of the surface thoughts in my head. So....yeah, sorry.)[/spoiler]
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Post June 29th, 2012, 10:38 am

I don't know how to do multiple quotes, so I just did it the old fashioned way and wrote it down:

You asked "Where and when did I say that I had the answers to the universe"

I went back to your OP and picked out some quotes that conveyed this sentiment (emphasis is mine)

"...should count as a myth."
"All religions are based on the ignorance that our race had on life, the universe, and the purpose of life."
"Sadly, that ignorance..."
"...brainwashing, oppression, finding those in a weak moment."
"Christianity, Islam, and all the other religions are in my eyes myths and legends."
"I sincerely hope the human race will mature enough in the near future to leave it behind."
"...some people have deluded them self to believe so."

By suggesting that people are brainwashed, oppressed, ignorant, deluded, immature, etc... you are comparing them to yourself, and intimating that if they knew better (the way that you do) then they wouldn't believe in something similar to "Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny" How is that not A. arrogant, and B. suggesting that you have answers that others don't?

I want to make it clear (since I am a deluded, immature, ignorant boob) that I can in fact read, and I understand discourse. I know your OP was your opinion. The fact that it is your opinion does not shield it from being called arrogance, or even from it being called wrong if I so chose (which I do not). You are coming from a place of disbelief and so you assume that because people believe in God or gods that they all believe the same way or that Science and God/gods are somehow at odds with each other. Creationism, and Evolution are not mutually exclusive theories. They can easily go hand in hand. To claim that they cannot (from either a Science based or a faith-based perspective) is incorrect and in my opinion short-sighted.

That being said, I am not here to tell anyone how they should/should not feel. Faith/lack of is personal. No two human beings experience life the same way. For one person, God will help them get through hard times and spur them on to greater, more compassionate behavior. For others, it will cause them to hate everyone they perceive not to fit the mold that they have created in their own minds.

As far as moral compasses, etc go, God is where I get my moral compass from. My bearings in a tempestuous sea of life. I have seen and experienced things that would make most people's hair curl. But still I try to be a good person, to show empathy and compassion for others when all I want to do is shoot myself or jump off a bridge. We get our moral compasses from different places. Those places work for us individually. Mine is not better than yours, and yours is not better than mine.

Also, (this is partially my own fault and so I apologize for my part in it) but this thread was supposed to be about belief in God/gods which of course others have pointed out that God/s and religion are two entirely different animals.

I would be happy to pick up this debate again if you wish when I get back in 3 weeks. I will look for this thread then (if it hasn't been locked--this subject is a powder keg waiting to happen)
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Post June 29th, 2012, 4:39 pm

God is an ambiguous word that means something different to each individual. To some God is a white beared man sitting on a thrown on a cloud. To some God is Jesus. To some God is Allah. To some God is Gita. To some God is the collective energy of all life in the universe. To some God is the total sum of everything we don't know about ourselves, life, and the universe.

As for me I believe in the possibility of God, and I think to say there is no God is to imply you know everything. This smacks of arrogance and only proves ignorance.

As far as us, meaning man, being so evolved I think this is hogwash. We are a mere stone throw away from our cave dwelling ancestors. We're still divided into our own clans vying for our own piece of the pie. Most of our technology is really us expanding upon and improving what was already there, and real true original technology is rare. We shouldn't confuse the fact that we've advanced the way we can communicate with one another, feed ourselves, and kill one another off, with the true evolution of elevating our minds beyond our petty differences.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 6:44 pm

Arabella wrote:
Tali'Zorah nar Rayya wrote:I am God.

Down Fido. Your dyslexia is kicking in.

May I send you flowers? :oops: <3

God... I don't know. I've been feeling a bit confused lately. I so much feel that there is indeed a God, but I have no clue who he should be, what his purpose is, what he wants for humanity, and whether he cares at all (I'm saying he, but I cannot tell actually). The one thing I do know is that I do not believe in everything the Bible says. For example, I do not believe in the concept of sinning - there is good and there is evil, but so much more than that, and eventually, we are left with intentions, desires, urges, considerations and fears. To break that down into what is allowed in general and what is not allowed, ever, seems quite useless to me. And I do not believe that any kind of sacrifice is needed for religious purposes, and so I do not believe in a Messiah.
So what I have been doing lately is ruling out possibilities (for myself, that is, I am not saying that to believe what I do not believe is ignorant or immature, or whatever has been mentioned). But whatever I rule out, there will always be left much and much more. I think I will try to go to church once in a while from some point on... Not to be convinced of anything, but to hear some other points of view.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 7:21 pm

Arabella wrote:
Tali'Zorah nar Rayya wrote:I am God.

Down Fido. Your dyslexia is kicking in.

Lol. :lol:

I'm agnostic.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 8:41 pm

It's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I don't believe in religion.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 9:34 pm

Okay, am I the only one who thinks their thread was made purely for The Librarian to shove his opinion down other members' throats just for the sake of it? I normally agree with you, Librarian, on things such as canon in the Potter threads, and I respect you as a debater, but you have just spat on so many people and their opinions, with no regard for how offensive you were.

It really hacks me off when people say that those with a faith or involved in organised religion are stupid, ignorant or looking for solace in fairytales.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Know who said that? Albert Einstein. So next time you are so keen to point out how immature people with a faith are as human beings, or that those who even consider a higher power are deluded, remember that there are people, including one of the greatest pioneers of modern science - perhaps even of all time - far more intelligent than most, who acknowledge that there may be a higher being or force out there.

Personally, I'm unsure. A year ago, I was Confirmed in the Methodist church, but I wish I had waited. I can't fully get my head around the concept anymore, but it really gets on my nerves when people just stamp all over billions of people's beliefs, especially in one go.

I think to say either way that "I know there is no God" or "I know there is a God" is kind of arrogant. I think it's good to at least try to consider the other side of the argument, at least once.
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Post June 29th, 2012, 11:19 pm

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Post June 30th, 2012, 12:45 am

HEATLE wrote:People need to learn to not take things sp seriously on an Internet message board. Image


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Post June 30th, 2012, 2:08 am

Alastor Dumebledor wrote:Eh, I've never been a big fan of religion. Believe me, I've lived in a Christian house all my life, had the Bible read to me, gone to Church, and all that stuff. I have to admit, some of it is really interesting and the idea of religion and god and what not is somewhat comforting at times.

However, I don't really belong to a religion. I do believe that there is a God or a higher power and what not, and that he/she/it created the universe and us and what not, but really I just don't see what's all to great about religion itself, as an organization. I can believe in God all I want on my own. Sure with other people it'll probably feel more comfortable, but I'm not a social being. Actually, I'm probably about 5% social. So I'm not all to keen to the ideas of Churches and what not. That, and the entire belief that you must live a Christian life to head to heaven, along with the baptisms and all that stuff. But then again, I've been raised in a Baptist house. Regardless, I don't see the point.

I'm an only child. Have no father, and my mother is near non-existent. I'm a loner. I've taught myself much of what I know and have done most of everything except downright pay the bills, which I'll be doing within the next year or two. I've seen plenty of guys who are great, but don't belong to a religion. Does that mean that they go to Hell, simply because they didn't go to Church, publicly acknowledge that Jesus was their savior, and used the Bible as a reference for living a good life? I would hope not, because these men are just great.

That and when it boils down to it, I simply don't care about religion. I have a relationship with God, despite not belonging to a religion. I'm curious by nature and have always asked the big 'Why' to life, trying to understand it. I have questions. They'll be answered sometime. If I end up going to hell for not belonging to a religion or living a 'Christian' life, then so be it. I'l bring a whole lot of sunscreen and probably all of Antarctica in a bottle. Maybe play poker with Superman. My entire goal in life is to live a good life, to be the type of man I want to be. A good man. Whether or not that follows traditional religious beliefs, I don't know nor care all to much.

[spoiler](Sorry if this seems a little disjointed and doesn't make sense. I tend to talk and write off of the surface thoughts in my head. So....yeah, sorry.)[/spoiler]


Your explanation made perfect sense to me. I don't feel that someone should have to go to church or should be required certain steps in order to go to Heaven. Honestly, I go to church on Wednesdays because with the hours my husband and I work there is no way to be there on Sundays. The church I have gone to my entire life will NOT baptists anyone until feel comfortable with it and we do not look at is a condemning when someone is not. I found it interesting that the Baptist Church you associated with does. My dad was raised Baptist and I have never heard of that outside the Catholic Church. And even then...My sister in law is Catholic and she didn't have her baby baptisted until her was 11
One thing that I love about this thread is that it gives more of an opportunity to express what one believes without feeling oppressed. I love learning about other religions in a non-bias setting.
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kix4funchick

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Post June 30th, 2012, 4:33 am

I believe in and love God and Jesus 100%. They have done so much for me. However, I'm more spiritual. I do not have an organized religion, I don't read the Bible, and I don't believe in Church.

I do not agree with the things people who are extremely religious say such as homosexuality is a sin, and sex before marriage is a sin. To me, the whole "God will damn you if you do this" thing is so not God. I can see why people have turned away from Him with all this "God hates you because you're like this" talk. To me, God isn't like that. He's loving, and I think he's much more laid back than most people like to say he is.

I have my own personal relationship with Him, and He hasn't disappointed me. I'm actually very amazed (though not surprised) at how every time I pray to him about things, it just all works out.
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Arabella

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Post June 30th, 2012, 4:47 am

Nona wrote:
Arabella wrote:
Tali'Zorah nar Rayya wrote:I am God.

Down Fido. Your dyslexia is kicking in.

May I send you flowers? :oops: <3

oh yesh please.

Just a reminder to not get personal in this thread :) Keep the debate civil.
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Gandhi

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Post June 30th, 2012, 5:00 am

I'm just so glad that to some of you, my disability is a laughing matter.

I am crushed.
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GinnyX

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Post June 30th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Arabella wrote:
Tali'Zorah nar Rayya wrote:I am God.

Down Fido. Your dyslexia is kicking in.

Spoiler: show
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MadamPince wrote:It's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I don't believe in religion.

I2I



I don't like that people use religion as an excuse to discriminate and attack people and I don't like it that it is a political tool being used to control other people.
"Well, it's my religion, I have to..."
No, you don't "have" to.



Religion isn't evil, it's the people who are. Take away religion and you will still have wars. People want power, they want land, they want stuff. Wars have been fought for reasons other than religious purposes, but people try to envoke the image of God (or Allah, etc) to scare others into joining them. It was even added to our Pledge of Allegiance and if you leave out that phrase, you're un-American.
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