FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

Atheism?

<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post April 20th, 2017, 1:40 am

Atheism?

What do you all think of the new atheist movement ( at least ten years old) or atheism in general? Are any of you guys atheists?

It seems like the two main tenants of atheism is 1. There is no God and 2. They hate him.

I am not an atheist, and I recognize the bad stuff organized religion has done. But IMO atheism just seems like an empty philosophy, like.. its a sense of community about denying the existence of something.

As much as they hate religion..what would Richard Dawkins and his like do if religion actually died? thered be nothing to talk about.

What do you think of atheism..and atheists?
<<

dryad

User avatar

la belle dame sans merci
la belle dame sans merci

Posts: 1635

Joined: August 11th, 2009, 1:56 am

Gender: Female

Post April 20th, 2017, 3:25 am

Re: Atheism?

SecretaryofMagic wrote:It seems like the two main tenants of atheism is 1. There is no God and 2. They hate him.


If the first tenet of atheism is that there's no god, then there would be no ill will towards something that doesn't exist. I'd say it's more like, if there's ill feeling towards anything it's religion as a whole.


SecretaryofMagic wrote:As much as they hate religion..what would Richard Dawkins and his like do if religion actually died? thered be nothing to talk about.


lolz, science though. It's not like that would go anywhere if religion died. A lack of religion doesn't mean people like Dawkins would suddenly have nothing to talk about.
Image
Image
<<

Ironman727

User avatar

Mulatto Butts
Mulatto Butts

Posts: 3559

Joined: September 15th, 2007, 5:21 pm

Location: the Universe

Post April 20th, 2017, 9:31 pm

Re: Atheism?

SecretaryofMagic wrote:What do you all think of the new atheist movement ( at least ten years old) or atheism in general? Are any of you guys atheists?


I'm an atheist. The new atheist movement is alright, some of it is just a way of hiding their racism though -- I follow a lot of atheistic social media, and about 90% of it is a joy to behold, with a lot of conversation around science, while a small percentage is racist shite. It's fine to hate a religious ideology that you recognise is detrimental to society and people, but it is not fine to condemn an entire race because of that religious ideology. Hate and fight the idea, not the people that believe it.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:It seems like the two main tenants of atheism is 1. There is no God and 2. They hate him.


Atheism is purely the disbelief in god(s). I can't hate what doesn't exist.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:I am not an atheist, and I recognize the bad stuff organized religion has done. But IMO atheism just seems like an empty philosophy, like.. its a sense of community about denying the existence of something.


I think it's quite clear that you don't understand what atheism is.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:As much as they hate religion..what would Richard Dawkins and his like do if religion actually died? thered be nothing to talk about.


What would a cancer patient do if they got rid of their cancer? They'd carry on with their lives, just without cancer. Richard Dawkins would just carry on researching, lecturing and writing about the field that he is an expert in, ethology and evolutionary biology.
Image
THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Part time Astrophysicist, full time Savage
<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 6th, 2017, 3:00 am

Re: Atheism?

If religion ever died, Richard Dawkins would lose a lot of his fame.

He's lucky atheism is so in vogue, otherwise he would not be nearly as famous as he is now.

Here's the thing I don't get about the New Atheist movements. Unlike the religious believers they "know " God is a fable, yet still seek to form friendship/community based around thinking a certain deity is imaginary and snickering at the backward superstition that constitutes religion.

Why does one concern oneself with things they don't believe exist, namely God? I feel that deep down, religion is a source of fascination for many atheists, something they enjoy studying and learning about even if they find it ultimately repugnant.

Also.. I have to disagree that religion is in itself intrinsically bad or evil.

Sure fundamentalists are bad and extremists are bad, but they are by and large limited to Islam and Christianity.

What is a Buddhist extremist for exampe?

Most Muslims and Christians arent extremists and do a lot of good. What harm does the mainline protestant church which provides a fun youth group and a nice bake sale do?

Would someone mind telling me what harm Judaism does? It seems a quite peaceful relgion
<<

dryad

User avatar

la belle dame sans merci
la belle dame sans merci

Posts: 1635

Joined: August 11th, 2009, 1:56 am

Gender: Female

Post May 6th, 2017, 5:41 am

Re: Atheism?

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Here's the thing I don't get about the New Atheist movements. Unlike the religious believers they "know " God is a fable, yet still seek to form friendship/community based around thinking a certain deity is imaginary and snickering at the backward superstition that constitutes religion.


That's literally all it's about: snickering at people who believe in backwards superstitions. It's because I'm bitter, and I like to surround myself with other bitter people who also like to sit around making fun of religious people. It's the most satisfying way to stroke my ego and feel some semblance of control in my life.

:P

Anyway, somehow I don't think most atheist communities are about getting together to laugh at the idea of an imaginary deity and the people who believe in it. If I were to get involved in an atheist community, it would be because I see the negative effects religion can have on people, and I've felt it personally, and I want to be part of a movement that combats those aspects and provides support for those who need it.

I don't mind at all if people want to believe in god or follow a religion. If it enriches their lives, great! Where I start caring is when people push their beliefs and moral systems onto others and thinking that because they personally believe it's right, everyone else has to follow it as well. Like, if something goes against your code of morals, okay, then you don't have to participate in it. But the problem is when certain religious principles create a culture of shame, judgement, and hatred.

The concern is not "with things they don't believe exist," or at least, it's not mine. The concern is the negative aspects of religion and the effects it can and does have on innocent people. Is it all bad? Of course not. I don't think anyone here is arguing that.
Image
Image
<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 6th, 2017, 4:38 pm

Re: Atheism?

NSFW,, but this is a funny satire of what Christians imagine athesits to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbfFAYn8bgc
<<

Ironman727

User avatar

Mulatto Butts
Mulatto Butts

Posts: 3559

Joined: September 15th, 2007, 5:21 pm

Location: the Universe

Post May 8th, 2017, 5:17 pm

Re: Atheism?

SecretaryofMagic wrote:If religion ever died, Richard Dawkins would lose a lot of his fame.


No, he definitely would not. He is an outstanding scientist in his field who was famous years before his crusade against religion.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:He's lucky atheism is so in vogue, otherwise he would not be nearly as famous as he is now.


Not really. He would still be famous for his work as a scientist.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Here's the thing I don't get about the New Atheist movements. Unlike the religious believers they "know " God is a fable, yet still seek to form friendship/community based around thinking a certain deity is imaginary and snickering at the backward superstition that constitutes religion.


They form a community based around spreading knowledge and science. Sure, we laugh at religion just like you would laugh at something you feel is ridiculous, but that is not what atheism is.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Why does one concern oneself with things they don't believe exist, namely God? I feel that deep down, religion is a source of fascination for many atheists, something they enjoy studying and learning about even if they find it ultimately repugnant.


As an ex-christian, I don't feel the need to concern myself with it at all - but if it comes into discussion, I will enjoy debating why religion as a whole is completely detrimental to society.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Also.. I have to disagree that religion is in itself intrinsically bad or evil.


A religion that preaches intolerance is, in my book, evil. And every religion preaches intolerance.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Sure fundamentalists are bad and extremists are bad, but they are by and large limited to Islam and Christianity.


Showing your naivety here. Every religion has its fundamentalists and extremists, from Buddhism to Hinduism and Sikhism - you just aren't aware of it because it's not at the forefront of the media. But trust me, have a quick google, and you will see how utterly mistaken you are.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:What is a Buddhist extremist for exampe?


Buddhism and violence

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Most Muslims and Christians arent extremists and do a lot of good. What harm does the mainline protestant church which provides a fun youth group and a nice bake sale do?


What harm does indoctrinating children to believe that the act of homosexuality is a sin, or that leading a lifestyle that doesn't adhere to the bible will condemn you to an eternity in hell fire. What harm does making young children fear a man-made deity do? It's bordering child abuse.

You can teach children how to do the right thing and live a peaceful life without religion and its intolerance.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Would someone mind telling me what harm Judaism does? It seems a quite peaceful relgion


Maybe take a look at radical zionism.
Image
THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Part time Astrophysicist, full time Savage
<<

GinChaser

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1377

Joined: January 13th, 2017, 9:35 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 8th, 2017, 6:12 pm

Re: Atheism?

And not all facets of religion do that...and whats more, not all parents do that either. I happen to be christian, and I don't teach my kids that homosexuality is a sin or that if you are a bad person you are going to burn in hell.

I don't think teaching my kids to believe in a higher power is borderline child abuse at all...and the fact that you have actually tried to equate the two is borderline offensive tbh.

You are confusing faith and religion, friend. Catholic, Lutheran,Judasim, Hindu. Those are religions.

Having faith has absolutely nothing to do with that. For example, I believe in God. I believe that god kickstarted that whole evolutionary thing. I have faith that that is true, and while I can't prove it...I don't have too. I have faith. And despite your claims, you cant really disprove it either. You can try to punch some holes in it, but it doesnt shake the basis my faith. Jesus died for our sins, and rose again three days later etc.)

Now do believe that God sent seven plagues across land of egypt...no. do I believe that Mary was simply assumed into heaven after she died...no. Do I believe that God created the world in 7 days....No.

But thats ok, because that's not the basis of my faith.
Last edited by GinChaser on May 8th, 2017, 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Wand: 12 1/2 " / Hazel/ Dragon Heartstring/ Surprisingly Swishy

Patronus: Horse(Dun in colouring)

Thanks dryad, you fantastic fish, you.
<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 8th, 2017, 7:25 pm

Re: Atheism?

Lol.. and here is what I thought a radical buddhist looks like: http://www.theonion.com/article/buddhis ... ilit-34623.

For the record, I am Catholic. I don't think there is any way of "proving" God exists, I just think faith is something you either buy into after thinking about/exploring or you do not. There are however several coincidences in human beings that make the likelihood of God seem plausible (the conscinece, Humanity's reasoning/creative capacity, etc.)

One philosopher said that if believer's biggest challenge is the problem of evil, than atheists ones is the prolem of good :roll:


But aren't you atheists worried..that the more you persevere in your atheism the more like Mao and Stalin you will turn out to e :roll:
<<

dryad

User avatar

la belle dame sans merci
la belle dame sans merci

Posts: 1635

Joined: August 11th, 2009, 1:56 am

Gender: Female

Post May 8th, 2017, 8:03 pm

Re: Atheism?

GinChaser wrote:I don't think teaching my kids to believe in a higher power is borderline child abuse at all...and the fact that you have actually tried to equate the two is borderline offensive tbh.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's saying that simply passing on the belief in a higher being is child abuse, but rather the fear is. And a lot of the time, that belief automatically comes with fear. Even though some parents/denominations may separate those aspects and teach that God is loving and compassionate, there are many denominations where God is supposed to be feared. Depending on what aspects you're looking at, religion may not outright equate to abuse, but they can/do go hand in hand.


SecretaryofMagic wrote:Lol.. and here is what I thought a radical buddhist looks like: http://www.theonion.com/article/buddhis ... ilit-34623.


Gotta love the onion :D


SecretaryofMagic wrote:But aren't you atheists worried..that the more you persevere in your atheism the more like Mao and Stalin you will turn out to e :roll:


Already there my friend.

Image
Image
Image
<<

Ironman727

User avatar

Mulatto Butts
Mulatto Butts

Posts: 3559

Joined: September 15th, 2007, 5:21 pm

Location: the Universe

Post May 8th, 2017, 11:37 pm

Re: Atheism?

GinChaser wrote:And not all facets of religion do that...and whats more, not all parents do that either. I happen to be christian, and I don't teach my kids that homosexuality is a sin or that if you are a bad person you are going to burn in hell.


If you do not teach your children that bad people are going to burn in hell if they do not throw themselves before your god and beg for mercy and forgiveness, then you do not follow the core values that the bible, especially the New Testament, constantly preach about. Therefore, I would question your claim that you are actually a Christian, and that you rather have just cherry picked your favourite parts of the Bible and have applied them to your life.

GinChaser wrote:I don't think teaching my kids to believe in a higher power is borderline child abuse at all...


I don't either, glad we agree on something. The child abuse is teaching children that there is an eternity of weeping and gnashing of teeth in a great firey pit if you do not follow Jesus, or Allah, or whatever god(s) you believe in, and making them fear that from an early age. The child abuse is indoctrinating children to be intolerant of race, gender and sexuality. The child abuse is allowing children to read the Bible and tell them how moral and great your god is, when actually the book is full of murder, rape, violence and intolerance. The child abuse is indoctrinating your children in the pseudoscience of creationism, and neglecting their education through this. If any of these apply to you, then I do view you as a perpetrauter of child abuse. If not, then good on you.

GinChaser wrote:and the fact that you have actually tried to equate the two is borderline offensive tbh.


See above.

GinChaser wrote:You are confusing faith and religion, friend. Catholic, Lutheran,Judasim, Hindu. Those are religions.


I am talking strictly about religion, not faith. You can believe whatever you want, and have faith in whatever you want. I don't see any problem with kids believing in Santa Clause. However, if Santa Clause is used to spread intolerance, indoctrination, hate, fear, and is used to control the masses, then I have a problem.

GinChaser wrote:And despite your claims, you cant really disprove it either.


I no longer try to. It falls upon the claimant to provide evidence.

The only way someone with closed eyes will see, is if they themselves open their eyes.

GinChaser wrote:Jesus died for our sins, and rose again three days later etc.


So, you don't believe that God sent seven plagues across the land of egypt, or that Mary was simply assumed into heaven after she died, or that your god created the world in 7 days, but you believe that a man died for your sins and then was raised from the dead three days later? This is the cherry picking I was referring to at the start of my post.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:But aren't you atheists worried..that the more you persevere in your atheism the more like Mao and Stalin you will turn out to e :roll:


Why? Because I believe in one less god than you? Don't be stupid.
Image
THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Part time Astrophysicist, full time Savage
<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 8th, 2017, 11:59 pm

Re: Atheism?

I don't buy that atheists are mainly a science club.

There seems to be a great dislike but fascination for religion in general.

There really is no strong religion to speak of Richard Dawkins' England, so he has to travel abroad to learn about and throw his contempt at religion. He even walked in a procession at Lourdes: http://www.spiritualtravels.info/articl ... main-page/.

On this page there is plenty of discussion of religion: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums

Whether true or false religion does fill a rather large hole in many people's lives, and (unlike mythology or cryptozoology) provides answers to questions such as

1. Why are here?

2. What is our purpose?

3. What is right from wrong? What is good and how do we do it?

Just for the record I think atheists are perfectly capable of being decent people who aren't mass murderers.

But the question is, is being either of the above to be a "good" person?
<<

Ironman727

User avatar

Mulatto Butts
Mulatto Butts

Posts: 3559

Joined: September 15th, 2007, 5:21 pm

Location: the Universe

Post May 9th, 2017, 8:53 am

Re: Atheism?

SecretaryofMagic wrote:I don't buy that atheists are mainly a science club.


Atheism is just disbelief in god(s). Simple as that.

You will find lots of different atheists who will focus on religion, and you will find lots of different atheists who will focus on science, and you will also find lots of different atheists who don't give a shit about either. I think you're mistaking atheism as a religion, which it is not. It is simply the lack of belief, and like with any group of people, everyone is different and will have different things that take their attention.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:There seems to be a great dislike but fascination for religion in general.


In the same way that I'm fascinated about Sasquatch.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:There really is no strong religion to speak of Richard Dawkins' England, so he has to travel abroad to learn about and throw his contempt at religion. He even walked in a procession at Lourdes: http://www.spiritualtravels.info/articl ... main-page/.


He travels to countries where religion has a direct correlation with being detrimental to society and being a negative influence on education. Religion is why Creationism exists, and Creationism is a complete crux to education.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:On this page there is plenty of discussion of religion: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums


Amongst plenty of other discussion as well.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Whether true or false religion does fill a rather large hole in many people's lives,


In the same way that heroin does.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:and (unlike mythology or cryptozoology) provides answers to questions such as

1. Why are here?


Science answers that, religious doctrine gives you a fairytale answer.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:2. What is our purpose?


You need a book written over 2000 years ago to determine what your purpose is in life? That's unfortunate.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:3. What is right from wrong? What is good and how do we do it?


Well that's just wrong. Religious doctrine has more immorality in it than morality. The only reason you believe that understanding right from wrong comes from religious doctrine is because either: 1) You've never read it, and rely on third party information or 2) You've read it and conveniently brushed over all the bullshit (which is around 85% of it) and just cherry pick whatever you feels applies to yourself.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:Just for the record I think atheists are perfectly capable of being decent people who aren't mass murderers.


Well, that's nice to know.

SecretaryofMagic wrote:But the question is, is being either of the above to be a "good" person?


Every person has a different definition of what is good. In my mind, as long as I go through life not harming people, physically or psychologically, attempt to be a betterment for society and enjoy my life while doing so, then I am a good person. I don't need a book to tell me that this is the right thing to do, or attempt to dictate the way I live my life.
Image
THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Part time Astrophysicist, full time Savage
<<

Rosey678

User avatar

Mrs. Hikaru Hitachiin
Mrs. Hikaru Hitachiin

Posts: 7374

Joined: May 29th, 2012, 9:02 pm

Location: In the Achievement Hunter office

Gender: Female

Post May 9th, 2017, 8:59 pm

Re: Atheism?

Meh, I'm unsure when it comes to this subject.

A higher power DOES serve as some form of comfort for some people, I'm not gonna be that guy and take that comfort away.
I'm not the biggest believer in god, but I'm not gonna force my doubts onto other people. If they want to believe in a god then let them, as long as that belief doesn't affect the people around them negatively.

No one likes having beliefs shoved down their throat, whither it's atheism or monotheism.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Gryffindor Prefect
<<

curiosity

User avatar

Alchemist
Alchemist

Posts: 30240

Joined: November 1st, 2007, 3:52 am

Location: Pigfarts

Gender: Male

Post May 15th, 2017, 4:23 pm

Re: Atheism?

Image
<<

SecretaryofMagic

User avatar

Seventh Year
Seventh Year

Posts: 774

Joined: August 20th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Gender: Male

Post May 20th, 2017, 4:10 pm

Re: Atheism?

I think God (or gods) evidence can't really be proven empiracally, and think those Christian/Atheist debates just end up being sort of pointless and fruitless.

There are however several...circumstances which I think strongly point to a God existing.

1. The existence of the human conscience ( and the desperate attempts of some humans to silence or ignore their conscience.)

2. The need to worship. This is why even atheists worship things that aren't God (money,people,causes,objects). Just look at Snape. He likely was not a churchgoer (do any of the wizards go to church...?) and so he made the dead Lily Evans the God he worshipped.

3. The creative impulse of humans. Emulating their creator, all humans create things, (see buildings, symphonies etc.)

Beaver dams and chimps making paintings do not county becuase those are done based off instinct not reason..


Just my 2 cents

Return to The Leaky Cauldron

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest