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Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

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stefanvh

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Post January 10th, 2018, 1:40 pm

Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

I found this essay by cgold which analyses the fight between Ron and Harry in detail. In particular, it attacks the common misconception that the main reason why Ron was annoyed at Harry was due to jealousy. Read it for yourself in the spoiler below, or on this link: http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97181.

Spoiler: show
I just don’t understand people’s views on the fight at all. Common misconceptions that have stemmed from the fight in my opinion are:

1. That Harry and Ron have actually ever fought in the books. This one is really weird because except for that one fight in GoF, Ron and Harry have actually never fought in the books. If someone brings the canon, I will change this statement. In fact, I think Ron and Harry’s friendship was so unrealistically perfect because they were always on the same page and agreed on almost everything that JK probably felt it necessary to give Ron and Harry an actual reason to fight. The only thing I remember is a brief scuffle over the Mirror of Erised and I don’t think that can count since they were just little boys each trying to get a look into a magical mirror.

2. The main reason Ron did not talk to Harry was because of jealousy. I have read and reread the text and I just can’t find a real basis for it other than Hermione saying so. I know that Ron can be jealous and it was indeed a big factor in the way he reacted but I just don’t see how that was the reason he actually stopped talking to Harry at all.

Ron was the one that sacrificed himself on the chess piece for Harry and stood up on his broken leg in front of Sirius to defend Harry when he thought he was a murdering, raving lunatic so a little jealousy wouldn’t stop Ron from speaking to Harry, in my opinion. It seems to me that Ron felt betrayed by Harry and Harry called him stupid.

JK Rowling, Time Pacific Article (December 2000):

“Harry has been catapulted into this [the Hogwarts experience], and he operates on a need-to-know basis only. He doesn’t really want to go looking things up. The whole thing is very surreal to Harry. He copes in a very different way from Hermione–he’s sort of sink-or-swim, I’ll just deal with it minute to minute, which is possibly a more boyish way of coping, rather than go over and over all the angles, as I think a lot of young girls do. Harry’s more likely than Hermione and Ron to be depressed.
He’s got to fight harder against that because he went through 10 years of neglect [from his cruel relatives], and that leaves you with an enormous emptiness inside you. He really is a damaged person. So yes, he’s more vulnerable. He’s also a very brave person, who’s going to keep fighting against depression. No one’s wholly good. I would say Harry has flaws and failings.
He was too proud [in the fourth book] to talk to Ron about what was bothering them both. Harry was walking around thinking, ‘I’m the one with all the problems,’ and he did have a lot of problems, but Ron had been a faithful friend for three years, and I would have cut Ron a little more slack.”

AN ANALYSIS OF THE FIGHT BETWEEN RON AND HARRY – GOF


1. Dumbledore announces the Triwizard Tournament and then he talks about the death toll

GoF
“—until, that is, the death toll mounted so high that the tournament was discontinued.”
“Death toll?” Hermione whispered, looking alarmed. But her anxiety did not seem to be shared by the majority of the students in the Hall; many of them were whispering excitedly to one another, and Harry himself was far more interested in hearing about the tournament than worrying about deaths that had happened hundreds of years ago.



Here we establish that Hermione realizes the task is dangerous immediately but Harry and everyone else, including Ron, thinks this is just something exciting and would bring glory and money. They are also later assured by Dumbledore (THE DUMBLEDORE that tries to make sure all his students are safe) that a lot of safety restrictions will be inputted to make sure everyone is safe.

GoF
“We have worked very hard over the summer to ensure that this time, no champion will find himself or herself in mortal danger.




2. Fred, George, Ron, Hermione, Harry discuss the Tournament – same night

GoF
“Who’s this impartial judge who’s going to decide who the champions are?” said Harry.
“Dunno,” said Fred, “but it’s them we’ll have to fool. I reckon a couple of drops of Aging Potion might do it, George…”
“Dumbledore knows you’re not of age, though.” Said Ron
“Yeah, but he’s not the one who decides who the champion is, is he?” said Fred shrewdly. “Sounds to me like once this judge knows who wants to enter, he’ll choose the best from each school and never mind how old they are. Dumbledore’s trying to stop us giving our names.”
“People have died, though!” said Hermione in a worried voice as they walked through a door concealed behind a tapestry and started up another, narrower staircase.
“Yeah,” said Fred airily, “but that was years ago, wasn’t it? Anyway, where’s the fun without a bit of risk? Hey, Ron, what if we find out how to get ‘round Dumbledore? Fancy entering?”
“What do you reckon?” Ron asked Harry. “Be cool to enter, wouldn’t it? But I s’pose they might want someone older…. Dunno if we’ve learned enough….”
“I definitely haven’t,” came Neville’s gloomy voice from behind Fred and George.
“I expect gran’d want me to try though. She’s always going on about how I should be upholding the family honor. I’ll just have to — oops…”
Neville’s foot had sunk right through a step halfway up the staircase. There were many of these trick stairs at Hogwarts; it is second nature to most of the older students to jump this particular step, but Neville’s memory was notoriously poor. Harry and Ron seized him under the armpits and pulled him out, while a suit of armor at the top of the stairs creaked and clanked, laughing wheezily.
“Shut it, you,” said Ron, banging down its visor as they passed.


Several things to note during this discussion:

1. Fred and George think it’s possible to find a way around the impartial judge and Ron and Harry kind of think it’s a possibility.

2. Ron thinks to consult Harry about the both of them entering because Ron would not think to enter without Harry being there to possibly share the glory and get the money. Another thing to note is that Ron is perfectly aware that he is talented enough outside of classes and Quidditch or he wouldn’t dream of thinking he could win Tournament. And based on his success with the deatheaters, etc, he is. Also to note, Fred and George are also aware of this, so is Harry, so is Hermione. No one thinks it odd that Ron thinks he can enter and win.

3. Fred asks RON if he wants to enter and doesn’t think about Harry at all. He only thinks to ask his brother. Ron is never given a reason to think Fred and George or any of his family members (the verdict is still out on Ginny ) prefers Harry over him. They love Harry for sure, but family will be first. They just love to tease Ron mercilessly and that is something siblings are all about. Ron has NEVER expressed any jealousy in terms of how his family treats Harry. He welcomes Harry into his home every summer and Christmas too and loves to share his family because he knows Harry has none. He makes sure Harry has a family and begrudges none of the attention Harry receives because Ron is not a jealous person when it comes to things like that. Clearly.

4. Hermione is still very much aware that people have died in this tournament and the dangers while the boys all remain oblivious to it.

5. When Neville is trapped Ron runs to his aid and defends him from mockery because that’s what Ron is all about.


3. Discussion between Harry and Ron only in the bedroom when they are about to sleep.

GoF
“I might go in for it, you know,” Ron said sleepily through the darkness, “if Fred and George find out how to….the tournament… you never know, do you?”
“S’pose not….”
Harry rolled over in bed, a series of dazzling new pictures forming in his mind’s eye… He had hoodwinked the impartial judge into believing he was seventeen…he had become Hogwarts champion…he was standing on the grounds, his arms raised in triumph in front of the whole school, all of whom were applauding and screaming…he had just won the Triwizard Tournament….Cho’s face stood out particularly clearly in the blurred crowd, her face showing admiration…
Harry grinned into his pillow, exceptionally glad that Ron could not see what he could.



Okay so here we note a few things:

1. Harry is just like Ron in wanting to feel the glory and he already gets a lot of attention.

2. Ron has reiterated his desire to go in the tournament if he’s able to. He has shown no desire for Harry not to enter but wants Harry to enter as well.



4. October 29th – the day before the arrival of the Triwizard champions

GoF
“You two got any ideas on the Triwizard Tournament yet?” Harry asked. “Thought any more about trying to enter?”
“I asked McGonagall how the champions are chosen but she wasn’t telling,” said George bitterly. “She just told me to shut up and get on with transfiguring my racoon.”
“Wonder what the tasks are going to be?” said Ron thoughtfully, “You know, I bet we could do them, Harry. We’ve done dangerous stuff before…”
“Not in front of a panel of judges, you haven’t,” said Fred. “McGonagall says the champions get awarded points according to how well they’ve done the tasks.”
“Who are the judges?” Harry asked.
“Well, the Heads of the participating schools are always on the panel,” said Hermione, and everyone looked around at her, rather surprised, “because all three of them were injured during the Tournament of 1792, when a cockatrice the champions were supposed to be catching went on a rampage.”



Note several things here:

1. Harry still expresses interest in entering the tournament

2. Ron reiterates again his desire for BOTH him and Harry to enter and feels he can win and no one thinks this idea strange. Not Fred, not George, not Harry, not Hermione. Everyone in their circle of family and friends is aware that Ron is a talented enough fighter in the books. (This isn’t very relevant to the topic but I just thought it was worth mentioning because Ron did think he and Harry could conceivably enter and no one thinks it odd).

3. Hermione once again shows that she has read up on the tournament and is aware of the many dangers it presents while the boys continue to ignore this little fact.



5. The Day they choose the champions

GoF
“Anyone put their name in yet?” Ron asked a third-year girl eagerly.
“All the Durmstrang lot,” she replied. “But I haven’t seen anyone from Hogwarts yet?”
“Bet some of them put it in last night after we’d all gone to bed,” said Harry. “I would’ve if it had been me … wouldn’t have wanted everyone watching. What if the goblet just gobbled you right back out again.”



Here we see where Ron got his evidence that Harry put his name in the Goblet without telling him. Harry expressly states how he would have done it and when Harry’s name pops out of the goblet, unfortunately Ron thinks Harry betrayed him. Harry knew Ron wanted to enter the tournament. He could have told him how he did it.
So now Harry’s name comes out of the Goblet and everyone is stunned.

GoF
Professor Dumbledore was now looking down at Harry, who looked right back at him, trying to discern the expression of the eyes behind the half-moon spectacles.
“Did you put your name into the Goblet of Fire, Harry?” he asked calmly.
“No,” said Harry. He was very aware of everybody watching him closely. Snape made a soft noise of impatient disbelief in the shadows.
“Did you ask an older student to put it into the Goblet of Fire for you?” said Professor Dumbledore, ignoring Snape.
“ No” said Harry vehemently.


Dumbledore questions Harry as well and while Dumbledore has the power of Leglimens and possibly used it to discern the truth from Harry, Ron does not. Also, Ron isn’t aware that there could be a reason anyone would be trying to set up an overly elaborate, way over the top plan to kill Harry. Why would anyone but Harry put his name in the Goblet? Voldemort was a non-issue at this point in book 4 and has been a non-issue for quite a while for everyone in the wizarding world except for that brief time on the back of Quirrel’s head.

When Harry leaves, Cedric asks him how he did it and when he said he didn’t Cedric did not believe him. Later, Harry enters the Gryffindor Common room where everyone is cheering and Fred and George are deeply impressed and annoyed with Harry for not telling them how he did it. These people, Snape, the teachers, all think it was possible for Harry to have done it.

6. Ron and Harry discuss Harry’s name being put in the Goblet

GoF

“Where’ve you been?” Harry said.
“Oh hello,” said Ron.
He was grinning, but it was a very odd, strained sort of grin. Harry suddenly became aware that he was still wearing the scarlet Gryffindor banner that Lee had tied around him. He hastened to take it off, but it was knotted very tightly. Ron lay on the bed without moving, watching Harry struggle to remove it.
“So,” he said, when Harry had finally removed the banner and thrown it into a corner. “Congratulations.”
“What do you mean, congratulations?” said Harry, staring at Ron. There was definitely something wrong with the way Ron was smiling: It was more like a grimace.
“Well…no one else got across the Age Line,” said Ron. “Not even Fred and George. What did you use — the Invisibility Cloak?”
“The Invisibility Cloak wouldn’t have got me over that line,” said Harry slowly.
“Oh right,” said Ron. “I thought you might’ve told me if it was the cloak… because it would’ve covered both of us, wouldn’t it? But you found another way, did you?”
“Listen,” said Harry, “I didn’t put my name in the goblet. Someone else must’ve done it.”
Ron raised his eyebrows.
“What would they do that for?”
“I dunno,” said Harry. He felt it would sound very melodramatic to say, “To kill me.”
Ron’s eyebrows rose so high that they were in danger of disappearing into his hair.
“It’s okay, you know, you can tell me the truth,” he said. “If you don’t want everyone else to know, fine, but I don’t know why you’re bothering to lie, you didn’t get into trouble for it, did you? That friend of the Fat Lady’s, that Violet, she’s already told us all Dumbledore’s letting you enter. A thousand Galleons prize money, eh? And you don’t have to do end-of-year tests either …”
“I didn’t put my name in that goblet!” said Harry starting to feel angry.
“Yeah, okay,” said Ron, in exactly the same skeptical tone as Cedric. “Only you said this morning you’d have done it last night, and no one would’ve seen you…I’m not stupid you know.”
“You’re giving a good impression of it,” Harry snapped.
“Yeah?” said Ron, and there was no trace of grin, forced or otherwise on his face now.



So there you have it. The big falling out. Several things to point out during the fight:

1. Ron is clearly mostly upset because he thought Harry had found a way to enter his name in the Goblet without telling him. This is not really a jealousy issue except Ron really wanted to go into the competition himself and was therefore, jealous of missing that chance at potential glory but that isn’t his main upset. He’s mainly upset about Harry’s betrayal.

2. Harry enters the [dorm room] with a Gryffindor banner tied around him. That would look to any rational person that Harry was downstairs celebrating his coup d’gras. It sure looks like it. JK writes how Harry struggles out of the thing with Ron watching to assure us that we’ve observed this action.

3. The most interesting thing I noted though was how Ron was willing to move past that if Harry just told him how he did it. I mean, how nice of Ron to just accept that Harry would betray him and move on. He states that Harry didn’t get into trouble so what’s the big deal. If Harry had only been willing to share how he got in Ron wouldn’t have felt so betrayed. This is obviously all from Ron’s PoV.

4. Harry quickly loses his temper and insults Ron and calls him an idiot. This is the same guy that stood up for him in the Chess board, against Sirius, follows him and is his second in everything and instead of telling Ron (who was willing to move past the fact that Harry knew Ron wanted to enter and didn’t tell him how to do it), Harry insults him like that. He and Harry had been a lot to each other before and if you look at it from Ron’s P.O.V. why would anyone but Harry put his name in the Goblet. Harry hadn’t told them about Trelawney’s prediction (I think – could be wrong, and neither Ron nor Hermione respect Trelawney anyway), Ron isn’t aware that Harry is in any danger from Voldemort because they have quite put a stop to it in books 1-2. Why would anyone put Harry’s name in the Goblet?

So to summarize

1. Hermione was very cognizant of the fact that the Tournament was very dangerous from the start.

2. Hermione had no desire to enter the Tournament and her head was full of S.P.E.W. She had no reason to think Harry had betrayed her.

3. Ron was very eager to enter the Tournament and very eager for Harry to enter as well. He would not have been jealous of Harry winning. He simply felt betrayed when Harry excluded him from his plan to put his name in the goblet. Harry knew Ron wanted to enter - this was not a secret.

4. Ron looks for an explanation from Harry, he doesn’t attack first.

5. Harry doesn’t voice his concern that he thinks someone may be trying to kill him so what else is Ron supposed to assume? Harry shouldn’t be in danger. Voldemort is dead.

6. Ron does not think Harry is in any danger whatsoever. Dumbledore has assured him that they wouldn’t be. Ron has no basis for thinking Harry would be hurt in any way.


AFTER THE FIGHT

Now after the fight is another thing to examine:

The Weighing of the Wands

When Harry woke up on Sunday morning, it took him a moment to remember why he felt so miserable and worried. Then the memory of the previous night rolled over him. He sat up and ripped back the curtains of his own four-poster, intending to talk to Ron, to force Ron to believe him – only to find that Ron’s bed was empty; he had obviously gone down to breakfast.


So Harry woke up with every intention of forcing Ron to talk to him and with a little explanation and rational talking, more than likely Ron would have come around. Unfortunately, Hermione put other ideas into Harry’s mind.

The Weighing of the Wands”

Have you seen Ron?” Harry interrupted.
Hermione hesitated.
“Erm…yes…he was at breakfast,” she said.
“Does he still think I entered myself?”
“Well…no, I don’t think so…not really,” said Hermione awkwardly.
“What’s that suppose to mean, ‘not really’?”
“Oh Harry, isn’t it obvious?” Hermione said despairingly. “He’s jealous!”
”Jealous?” Harry said incredulously.


Someone can help to explain this part but to me, Hermione isn’t aware of the full facts and she’s drawn logical conclusions based on her beliefs. I would even say there’s a little bit of self projection in her comments. It reminds me of HBP and her conclusions about Tonks. It all seems logical but she doesn’t have all the facts because she doesn’t know what happened between Lupin and Tonks just like she didn’t know what happened between Ron and Harry.

HBP, An Excess of Phlegm

“I’d much rather have Tonks in the family,” said Ginny. “At least she’s a laugh.”
“She hasn’t been much of a laugh lately,” said Ron. “Every time I’ve seen her she’s looked more like Moaning Myrtle.”
“That’s not fair,” snapped Hermione. “She still hasn’t got over what happened…you know… I mean, he was her cousin!”
Harry’s heart sank. They had arrived at Sirius. He picked up a fork and began shovelling scrambled eggs into his mouth, hoping to deflect any invitation to join in this part of the conversation.
“Tonks and Sirius barely knew each other!” said Ron. “Sirius was in Azkaban half her life and before that their families never met –“
“That’s not the point,” said Hermione. “She thinks it was her fault he died!”
“How does she work that one out?” asked Harry, in spite of himself.
“Well, she was fighting Bellatrix Lestrange, wasn’t she? I think she feels that if only she had finished her off, Bellatrix couldn’t have killed Sirius.”
“That’s stupid,” said Ron
“It’s survivor’s guilt,” said Hermione. “I know Lupin’s tried to talk her round, but she’s still really down. She’s actually having trouble with her Metamorphosing!”


As I’ve mentioned in other Ron related threads, he’s very astute about people and was once again correct in this situation and gave the facts that supported his correct conclusion. Hermione drew the wrong conclusion very decisively here and I think she did in GoF because she didn’t have all the facts. The point is Ron’s desire to be in the competition did make him a little more vulnerable but it wasn’t just straight jealousy that made him stop talking to Harry. I think even Harry doesn’t really believe it because in GoF there was this paragraph:

GoF, The Weighing of the Wands

"Ah, I don’ know, Harry,” Hagrid sighed suddenly, looking back down at him with a worried expression on his face. “School champion…everythin’ seems ter happen ter you, doesn’ it?”
Harry didn’t answer. Yes, everything did seem to happen to him…that was more or less what Hermione had said as they had walked around the lake, and that was the reason, according to her, that Ron was no longer talking to him.
It seems by saying “according to her, he’s not really accepted that as the true reason, in my opinion.


This is not related to the fight but this scene did say something that Ron was essentially not going to mock Harry but was probably feeling a little betrayed by him:

GoF, The Weighing of the Wands

The Slytherins howled with laughter. Each of them pressed their badges too, until the message POTTER STINKS was shining brightly all around Harry. He felt the heat rise in his face and neck.
“Oh very funny,” Hermione said sarcastically to Pansy Parkinson and her gang of Slytherin girls, who were laughing harder than anyone, “really witty.”
Ron was standing against the wall with Dean and Seamus. He wasn’t laughing but he wasn’t sticking up for Harry either.



And then this other part:

GoF, The Hungarian Horntail

Harry heard a tiny pop! in the fire behind him and knew Sirius had gone. He watched the bottom of the spiral staircase. Who had decided to go for a stroll at one o’clock in the morning, and stopped Sirius from telling him how to get past a dragon?
It was Ron. Dressed in his maroon paisley pajamas, Ron stopped dead facing Harry across the room, and looked around.
“Who were you talking to?” he said.
“What’s that got to do with you?” Harry snarled. “What are you doing down here at this time of night?”
“I just wondered where you –“ Ron broke off, shrugging. “Nothing. I’m going back to bed.”
“Just thought you’d come nosing around, did you?” Harry shouted. He knew that Ron had no idea what he’d walked in on, he knew he hadn’t done it on purpose, but he didn’t care – at this moment he hated everything about Ron, right down to the several inches of bare ankle showing beneath his pajama trousers.
“Sorry about that,” said Ron, his face reddening with anger. “Should’ve realized you didn’t want to be disturbed. I’ll let you get on with practicing for your next interview in peace.”
Harry seized one of the POTTER REALLY STINKS badges off the table and chucked it, as hard as he could, across the room. It hit Ron on the forehead and bounced off.
“There you go,” Harry said. “Something for you to wear on Tuesday. You might even have a scar now, if you’re lucky… That’s what you want, isn’t it?”
He strode across the room toward the stairs; he half expected Ron to stop him, he would even have liked Ron to throw a punch at him, he would even have liked Ron to throw a punch at him, but Ron just stood there in his too-small pajamas, and Harry having stormed upstairs, lay awake in bed fuming for a long time afterward and didn’t hear him come up to bed.


Here in this example we see Ron still appears to be looking out for Harry because he was wondering where he was. It reminds me of PoA when Ron was still concerned about Hermione and her health and overstudying even when he wasn’t speaking to her. I also noted that Harry got really violent and again it reminded me of when Hermione got violent with the birds in HBP. I have noticed that Ron has never been violent with any of his friends in all the years in the books but has only gotten violent on their behalf.

Overall, this is my understanding of the fight. Please share you interpretations of the fight, which parts I may have misinterpreted or forgot to analyze. I’m not saying that Ron wasn’t wrong but many people seem to blame him alone when Harry was definitely equally in the wrong, especially afterwards and I actually think Hermione’s interpretation (or misinterpretation, in my opinion) was a reason it lasted so long in the first place.

Cheers


What do you think?
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Thanks to Lumiere for this!

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MarsUltor

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Post January 10th, 2018, 4:07 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

A very very long and very very wrong explanation.

For starters;

1) People do not have to fight, it is realistic. I met my two best friends 10 and 11 years ago, we NEVER ever fought about something and we are on same page at almost every issue.

2) Ron is not talented enough to win the tournament. Everybody knows this including Ron. Harry is not talented enough too. He won by help of Crouch. A 4th year cannot win that tournament.

3) If we start to list any little thing that implies you argument; there is a better one. Let's try things when Ron was jealous of Harry. Even if you do not include the Ron's horcrux destruction moments (Ron's idiocy and jealousy was obvious), Ron WAS jealous of Harry for tons of times. I'll not even try to explaint this.

In the end, argument is nonsense like most of headcanon gibberish.
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stefanvh

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Post January 10th, 2018, 4:55 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

MarsUltor wrote:People do not have to fight, it is realistic. I met my two best friends 10 and 11 years ago, we NEVER ever fought about something and we are on same page at almost every issue.


My best friend and I have also never fought, that doesn't mean that I extrapolate it to everyone, unlike you. It is not realistic to expect everything in a friendship to always go perfectly and for issues never to come up.

MarsUltor wrote:Ron is not talented enough to win the tournament. Everybody knows this including Ron. Harry is not talented enough too. He won by help of Crouch. A 4th year cannot win that tournament.


Their fight was about entering the Tournament, not winning it. Winning it was simply a dream for them.

MarsUltor wrote:Even if you do not include the Ron's horcrux destruction moments (Ron's idiocy and jealousy was obvious)


Ron's "idiocy" during the Horcrux destruction? What on earth are you talking about?

MarsUltor wrote:Ron WAS jealous of Harry for tons of times. I'll not even try to explaint this.


That is a complete exaggeration with no evidence at all.

MarsUltor wrote:In the end, argument is nonsense like most of headcanon gibberish.


How can you say that the argument is nonsense when you haven't bothered to even address it? And no, this argument is entirely based on the canon of the books. Everything this person said was backed up by quotes from the books. So what you said makes me think that you have not read beyond the first two paragraphs.
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Post January 10th, 2018, 6:25 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

I think it is a bit of both.

Ron was angry that Harry didn't include him, when they talked about entering a couple of times.
He was hurt, but would have understood if Harry would have talked to him.

But once they were in this fight, the hidden jealousy reared its ugly head. Why does Harry always gets everything? It's not fair!

Ron clearly still cared a lot about Harry and when he worried, he wasn't to proud to go after him to make sure he is ok. That he then walked down in the exact wrong moment is not Ron's fault.
They were just two pigheaded teenagers that were really good at NOT communicating in a good why with each other
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Post January 10th, 2018, 8:53 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

As I always thought the only reason they fought was because JKR needed to have them split up in the run up to the first task I never bothered analysing anything. It was stupid of the author and totally OOC of Ron.
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Post January 10th, 2018, 11:11 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

stefanvh wrote:except for that one fight in GoF, Ron and Harry have actually never fought in the books (...) In fact, I think Ron and Harry’s friendship was so unrealistically perfect because they were always on the same page and agreed on almost everything


I'm not sure why this is important but they also fought when Ron left in DH, and they've had a few other disagreements like when Harry called Ron out for being a jerk to Hermione in HBP and of course Harry biting everyone's head of in OotP didn't except Ron.

I know that Ron can be jealous and it was indeed a big factor in the way he reacted but I just don’t see how that was the reason he actually stopped talking to Harry at all. Ron was the one that sacrificed himself on the chess piece for Harry and stood up on his broken leg in front of Sirius to defend Harry when he thought he was a murdering, raving lunatic so a little jealousy wouldn’t stop Ron from speaking to Harry, in my opinion. It seems to me that Ron felt betrayed by Harry and Harry called him stupid.


Firstly, if it wasn't jealousy that Ron had to get over then I don't see why he wouldn't believe Harry when Harry said he didn't enter his name, and if he simply didn't believe Harry because he actually thought Harry was lying then what made him change his mind? I imagine he never really believed Harry was lying and he just got scared over Harry fighting a gigantic dragon enough to get over his tantrum. Hermione offered a very sound theory about Ron being jealous and it was never disproved, why should we believe otherwise?

Also, I don't understand the reason for all the examples of Ron risking his life for Harry, like anyone ever believed that just because Ron stopped talking to Harry for a while for silly immature reasons means he wouldn't protect Harry at all costs the moment something dangerous happened. It's as simple as Ron sometimes getting caught up in childish logic, but when things get serious and the danger is clear we've never been given any clue that he wouldn't risk it all for his family and friends, he's as Gryffindor as they come that way.

JK Rowling, Time Pacific Article (December 2000):
He was too proud [in the fourth book] to talk to Ron about what was bothering them both. Harry was walking around thinking, ‘I’m the one with all the problems,’ and he did have a lot of problems, but Ron had been a faithful friend for three years, and I would have cut Ron a little more slack.”


Thanks for all that quote from Jo, I'd never read it and it's very interesting.
About this bit, I appreciate Ron's issues aren't easy, the inferiority complex from all his brothers and friends, the money issues (I havent had this problem myself, but my best friend did and I've seen how hard it's been for her), but Harry's problems were evidently much bigger and Ron was the one who started the fight by accusing Harry of lying, the one who had to take the first step to make amends was clearly Ron and the second Ron did that Harry didn't even ask for a proper apology, he pretty much jumped at the opportunity to leave the fight behind them.
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Post January 11th, 2018, 3:19 am

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

bery26 wrote:
Thanks for all that quote from Jo, I'd never read it and it's very interesting.
About this bit, I appreciate Ron's issues aren't easy, the inferiority complex from all his brothers and friends, the money issues (I havent had this problem myself, but my best friend did and I've seen how hard it's been for her), but Harry's problems were evidently much bigger and Ron was the one who started the fight by accusing Harry of lying, the one who had to take the first step to make amends was clearly Ron and the second Ron did that Harry didn't even ask for a proper apology, he pretty much jumped at the opportunity to leave the fight behind them.


Well the first time Ron makes a move towards Harry, even when it is a it clumsy, is when he comes down to look for Harry in the night, because he worries and Harry didn't jump that opportunity.
A Thaum is the basic unit of magical strength. It has been universally established as the amount of magic needed to create one small white pigeon or three normal-sized billiard balls.
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~ Terry Pratchett
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Post January 11th, 2018, 5:49 am

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

That wasnt a move, that was nothing. Maybe Ron was gonna make a move and he aborted when he realized Harry was not in the mood but there was no indication he was about to apologize.
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MarsUltor

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Post January 11th, 2018, 3:13 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

Grrarrggh wrote:As I always thought the only reason they fought was because JKR needed to have them split up in the run up to the first task I never bothered analysing anything. It was stupid of the author and totally OOC of Ron.


Agree with out of character although she did it again in Deathly Hallows.
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Post January 11th, 2018, 9:51 pm

Re: Ron and Harry: The GoF Fight, An Analysis

MarsUltor wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:As I always thought the only reason they fought was because JKR needed to have them split up in the run up to the first task I never bothered analysing anything. It was stupid of the author and totally OOC of Ron.


Agree with out of character although she did it again in Deathly Hallows.


At least in DH she had the horcrux to fall back on. That is an actual explanation. Whereas he suddenly thinks his best mate is lying to him about something huge?! That's just meta BS.
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