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Most Powerful Characters In Order?

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Grrarrggh

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Post September 8th, 2017, 9:56 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote: Harry could cast a coporeal patronous, and ward off a ton of dementors at 13. Something that Hermione had difficulty with at 17.


Still not sure if that's magical power or power of concentration when in a tight spot.
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torrent56

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Post September 9th, 2017, 9:14 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Well I feel after Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald there's a whole chasing pack including McGonagall, Shacklebot, Bellatrix, Snape, Filtwick, Slughorn among others that become rather difficult to separate.

It's also very clear that just because one character is objectively more powerful than the other doesn't mean they will always win in a duel because there are so many other factors influencing a fight; the best example would probably be Bellatrix and Molly at the end of last book which unfortunately lots of people don't understand.

Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote: Harry could cast a coporeal patronous, and ward off a ton of dementors at 13. Something that Hermione had difficulty with at 17.


Still not sure if that's magical power or power of concentration when in a tight spot.

I agree. I also believe Harry could become a far better wizard if he applied himself more to schoolwork and even if he showed himself to be a powerful wizard at times he had some surprisingly weak moments at school, e.g. being unable to learn summoning charm at the same pace as everyone else in GoF or lagging behind Hermione a lot in learning non-verbal spells.

Also I think the idea of powerful and the skills required can be very different in different contexts. For instance, I have no doubt that after PoA Harry would win a 1-1 duel against Hermione but it's probably a different story if they are both thrown into the wild alone and have to use their magic to survive.
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GinChaser

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Post September 9th, 2017, 3:32 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....

And then destroy him.

-- September 9th, 2017, 9:34 am --

Hermione has more magical knowledge to be sure. But that doesnt make her more powerful.
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Post September 9th, 2017, 4:08 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....

And then destroy him.

-- September 9th, 2017, 9:34 am --

Hermione has more magical knowledge to be sure. But that doesnt make her more powerful.


Definitely. Also he is just like any muggle born wizard who knows nothing about wizarding world. Just learn everything you can, damn it.
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torrent56

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Post September 9th, 2017, 8:57 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.

Hermione has more magical knowledge to be sure. But that doesnt make her more powerful.


I said the summoning charm was a weak moment for Harry not that it means he's weak or incompetent (and there's really nothing to say about non-verbal spells). Is that clear?

If you define magic power that way, then yes and I already acknowledged Harry is a powerful wizard spell-wise. I was looking at "powerful" in different contextes like survival skills which Harry found lacking in DH.

GinChaser wrote:Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....

And then destroy him.

Lol yeah I totally agree. Why Harry didn't learn attempt to learn anything himself in HBP after hearing the prophecy beyond his potions textbook is beyond me. Also note his main motivation for learning new spells like the Patronus is surprise, Quidditch and one of his main angst in OotP was not being able to play Quidditch. Why?
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Post September 10th, 2017, 5:44 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...
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Post September 11th, 2017, 2:53 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...


It also requires advanced magical power. If a happy thought was all it required then Hermione should have no trouble with it.

But lets talk about the Summoning Charm. Yes for a long while he has trouble with it....but when he does do it, he summons his firebolt from a very far distance.
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Wand: 12 1/2 " / Hazel/ Dragon Heartstring/ Surprisingly Swishy

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Post September 11th, 2017, 7:00 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...


It also requires advanced magical power. If a happy thought was all it required then Hermione should have no trouble with it.

But lets talk about the Summoning Charm. Yes for a long while he has trouble with it....but when he does do it, he summons his firebolt from a very far distance.


Does it? Where is that said? So that means Neville is quite powerful, as are Luna, Ron, etc? Pretty much every member of the DA is super powerful? I always saw it as a spell that requires normal power, like essentially every spell out there, but is more emotions based. As with Avada Kedavra. Pretty much anyone can use it BUT you've got to mean it. You need emotions, will power, not magical power, to bring it off.
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torrent56

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Post September 12th, 2017, 8:07 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...


It also requires advanced magical power. If a happy thought was all it required then Hermione should have no trouble with it.

But lets talk about the Summoning Charm. Yes for a long while he has trouble with it....but when he does do it, he summons his firebolt from a very far distance.

What about Harry's struggles with non-verbal spells which has the potential to save his life then? How do you know that the other students wouldn't be able to summon objects at a similar distance once they mastered the spell?
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Post September 13th, 2017, 6:25 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...


It also requires advanced magical power. If a happy thought was all it required then Hermione should have no trouble with it.

But lets talk about the Summoning Charm. Yes for a long while he has trouble with it....but when he does do it, he summons his firebolt from a very far distance.


Does it? Where is that said? So that means Neville is quite powerful, as are Luna, Ron, etc? Pretty much every member of the DA is super powerful? I always saw it as a spell that requires normal power, like essentially every spell out there, but is more emotions based. As with Avada Kedavra. Pretty much anyone can use it BUT you've got to mean it. You need emotions, will power, not magical power, to bring it off.


If you read up on Patronouses it says that it is a indication of great magical power.

I would say that warding off a 100 Dementors at the age of 13 is insanely powerful.

-- September 13th, 2017, 12:27 am --

torrent56 wrote:
GinChaser wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
GinChaser wrote:A summoning charm is not a direct example of your magical power. A Patronous is.


Its one of the things that pisses me off about Harry. If a crazy wizard killed my parents and essentislly ruined my life....I would go all Batman on his ass. I would learn everything about Magic and make myself as good as I possibly could....


No it's not. A patronous is an example of how well you can keep your "happy thought" in your head, especially in front of your worst nightmare.

As for Harry- his understandable hate for being forced to do things beyond his capacity and at the pure laziness and blasé of the wizarding world was much strong than his need to get revenge on some insane bloke. Especially given that he wasn't even an adult yet...


It also requires advanced magical power. If a happy thought was all it required then Hermione should have no trouble with it.

But lets talk about the Summoning Charm. Yes for a long while he has trouble with it....but when he does do it, he summons his firebolt from a very far distance.

What about Harry's struggles with non-verbal spells which has the potential to save his life then? How do you know that the other students wouldn't be able to summon objects at a similar distance once they mastered the spell?


Lets be honest here....we both know that Hermione practised that shot day and night. Harry, who was a lazy ass, did not.

However they all seem to be proficient with them when they come of age.

And who knows about the summoning charm. For all we know they could be.

But Harry did cast a shield charm so powerful that it has actually knocked people backwards...so theres that.
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torrent56

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Post September 13th, 2017, 8:46 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:If you read up on Patronouses it says that it is a indication of great magical power.

I would say that warding off a 100 Dementors at the age of 13 is insanely powerful.


I agree with what you said in principal. However, I believe what Grrarrggh is talking about is how some DA members like Hermione in OotP were apparently able to produce a corporal Patronus during their first DA meeting and they were only a few years older which kind of devalues the difficulty of the spell. The only defence I can think of is that they were not facing real dementors which makes the job much easier but then Harry had the time turner on his side when he got rid of those dementors at the age of 13.

GinChaser wrote:Lets be honest here....we both know that Hermione practised that shot day and night. Harry, who was a lazy ass, did not.

I know but it’s rather strange to hear how Harry is supposedly head and shoulders above everyone else in his year in DADA and yet to see him struggle with those non-verbal spells. Also Harry didn’t need to regret his laziness as Hermione was there to cover him in DH.
GinChaser wrote:However they all seem to be proficient with them when they come of age.

I might have forgotten something, but is there an instance where Harry successfully cast a non-verbal spell except hoisting Ron into the air using Snape’s textbook and refilling the wine bottle at Hagrid’s cabin during Aragog’s funeral under the influence of the lucky potion?
GinChaser wrote:And who knows about the summoning charm. For all we know they could be.
But Harry did cast a shield charm so powerful that it has actually knocked people backwards...so theres that.

True enough and it does reinforce the idea Harry is proficient at combat spells but those weak moments mentioned before still stands.
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Post September 13th, 2017, 10:46 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Quite frequently in book seven.

Ive long thought that you become more powerful when you come of age.

Time turner or not, he was still thirteen when he did it.
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Post September 21st, 2017, 10:04 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

I have never thought of Harry as particularly powerful...let's not forget that he had a part of the soul of one of the strongest wizards ever known at this point, who knows how that might of affected the raw power that Harry could draw upon.
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Post September 22nd, 2017, 11:43 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Leo J wrote:I have never thought of Harry as particularly powerful...let's not forget that he had a part of the soul of one of the strongest wizards ever known at this point, who knows how that might of affected the raw power that Harry could draw upon.

I am not sure exactly what power it gave him either. However I do know it gave him skills like parseltongue and penetrating Voldemort's mind (which for some reason Voldemort gave up using as a weapon against him) his friends never could get no matter how hard they work for it. He also got incredible good luck when his wand turned out to have the power to hold back Voldemort because of their shared properties.
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Post September 30th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

torrent56 wrote:
Leo J wrote:I have never thought of Harry as particularly powerful...let's not forget that he had a part of the soul of one of the strongest wizards ever known at this point, who knows how that might of affected the raw power that Harry could draw upon.

I am not sure exactly what power it gave him either. However I do know it gave him skills like parseltongue and penetrating Voldemort's mind (which for some reason Voldemort gave up using as a weapon against him) his friends never could get no matter how hard they work for it. He also got incredible good luck when his wand turned out to have the power to hold back Voldemort because of their shared properties.


He stopped doing it because it was excruciating to share his mind and soul with Harry.

-- September 30th, 2017, 1:51 pm --

Leo J wrote:I have never thought of Harry as particularly powerful...let's not forget that he had a part of the soul of one of the strongest wizards ever known at this point, who knows how that might of affected the raw power that Harry could draw upon.


Come on, this is crazy. He is crazy powerful.
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Post September 30th, 2017, 9:48 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:He stopped doing it because it was excruciating to share his mind and soul with Harry.

Yes I know it pretty well but it is an example that shows how Harry overcame a problem through no efforts of his own (and if we are honest he never tried very hard to master occlumency) but rather luck and convenient circumstances and it gives him to think about girls. :roll: Remember this was right after he heard about the prophecy about his showdown with Voldemort, what happened to becoming a better wizard?
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Post October 1st, 2017, 6:38 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

torrent56 wrote:
GinChaser wrote:He stopped doing it because it was excruciating to share his mind and soul with Harry.

Yes I know it pretty well but it is an example that shows how Harry overcame a problem through no efforts of his own (and if we are honest he never tried very hard to master occlumency) but rather luck and convenient circumstances and it gives him to think about girls. :roll: Remember this was right after he heard about the prophecy about his showdown with Voldemort, what happened to becoming a better wizard?



This doesnt change how powerful he is one bit.

And the question you asked was why Voldemort stopped using that as weapon...and thats why.

As for the occlumency....Harry didnt want to learn it. His curiousity about the corridor was too strong and he had the worst possible teacher in Snape. Also...Harry was left out of the loop for that book, so he didnt see it as important.

Doesnt change his power.

But yes, in his shoes....i would have became the wozarsing equivelant of Bat-man.
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Post October 1st, 2017, 10:19 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Voldemort
Dumbledore
Grindenwald
Severus Snape/Bellatrix/Minerva/Flitwick/Antonin Dolohov
Sirius/Remus/James/Moody/Shacklebolt/Slughorn/Lucius/Lily
Tonks/Karkaroff/Molly/most of the deatheaters

Harry/Hermione/Victor/Draco/Fred/George/Ron/Cedric
Luna/Neville/Crabbe/Goyle/Hagrid et al

Names on the same level would be about equally deadly in a fight, with the order representing what I think would be their relative power levels. Power is defined as the ability to come out on top in a one-one fight. Abilities considered: Spells, intelligence, legillimens, occlumens, charms, transfiguration, creativity, experience. All fighters are prepared to kill. Characters are at the time of the series. Dead characters at the time of their death.

I think Voldemort was more powerful than Dumbledore.He held his own against dumbledore even without the elder wand. I think dying and coming back through horcruxes also made him weaker.
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torrent56

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Post October 2nd, 2017, 2:00 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

GinChaser wrote:This doesnt change how powerful he is one bit.

And the question you asked was why Voldemort stopped using that as weapon...and thats why.

As for the occlumency....Harry didnt want to learn it. His curiousity about the corridor was too strong and he had the worst possible teacher in Snape. Also...Harry was left out of the loop for that book, so he didnt see it as important.

Doesnt change his power.

But yes, in his shoes....i would have became the wozarsing equivelant of Bat-man.


I believe I already acknowledged Harry is a powerful wizard for his age and I feel it’s relevant to also discuss potential skills in areas outside DADA. I also said I know the book explanation but when this is just one of lots of different circumstances that worked out in his favour through no work of his own… that makes me stop to ponder whether he does have more than a fair share of luck.

Yeah, he does have a natural curiosity which could have got him into serious trouble but things just worked out well for him, remember him ignoring Ron’s warning about the diary in CoS or his decision to dive into the Pensieve in GoF.

Well he does have the excuse of Snape not making things easy for him about occlumency, but then after realising how important it was after Sirius’ death, his decision to give up trying to learn it from someone else felt rather lazy and irresponsible (can you imagine Neville giving up trying to learn something this useful?). Also it’s disappointing when we found out that Draco Malfoy, who is really just a schoolyard bully and wannabe Death Eater, is much better at this skill than our hero. Doesn’t look good for Harry to say the least.
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Post October 2nd, 2017, 5:31 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Harry's personality is more open. He is not cut out to be an occlumens, as Draco and snape were. Though he could have definitely tried harder, I think occlumency was always a dead end.
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Post October 2nd, 2017, 8:32 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Assassin wrote:Harry's personality is more open. He is not cut out to be an occlumens, as Draco and snape were. Though he could have definitely tried harder, I think occlumency was always a dead end.


I don't agree with that at all. Harry spends a lot of his life hiding his feelings and thoughts, and even more hiding himself.
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Post October 3rd, 2017, 5:52 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Grrarrggh wrote:
Assassin wrote:Harry's personality is more open. He is not cut out to be an occlumens, as Draco and snape were. Though he could have definitely tried harder, I think occlumency was always a dead end.


I don't agree with that at all. Harry spends a lot of his life hiding his feelings and thoughts, and even more hiding himself.

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted. I think it was a theory of mine, but I've long forgotten the reason why I thought that. :lol:
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Post October 3rd, 2017, 7:56 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Assassin wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
Assassin wrote:Harry's personality is more open. He is not cut out to be an occlumens, as Draco and snape were. Though he could have definitely tried harder, I think occlumency was always a dead end.


I don't agree with that at all. Harry spends a lot of his life hiding his feelings and thoughts, and even more hiding himself.

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted. I think it was a theory of mine, but I've long forgotten the reason why I thought that. :lol:

My guess is Harry just doesn't know to control his thoughts and not let them wonder. It's fine if he isn't a good occlumens, but he didn't even try after learning how important it was at the end of fifth year and that he didn't have to study with Snape. He even used the excuse I'm no good at it to ward off Hermione's nagging in DH.
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Post October 3rd, 2017, 8:13 pm

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Assassin wrote:
Grrarrggh wrote:
Assassin wrote:Harry's personality is more open. He is not cut out to be an occlumens, as Draco and snape were. Though he could have definitely tried harder, I think occlumency was always a dead end.


I don't agree with that at all. Harry spends a lot of his life hiding his feelings and thoughts, and even more hiding himself.

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted. I think it was a theory of mine, but I've long forgotten the reason why I thought that. :lol:


Don't worry. You didn't forget. Someone planted that thought in your mind then took it out. :shock:
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Post October 4th, 2017, 5:37 am

Re: Most Powerful Characters In Order?

Draco also cant cast a Patronous and people seem to forget how smart he actually is. He was always just behind Hermione in terms of grades.
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