FAQ  •  Register  •  Login

The Dementor's Kiss

<<

Lumiere

User avatar

Albus
Albus

Posts: 5701

Joined: June 15th, 2012, 3:18 am

Post August 17th, 2014, 8:57 am

The Dementor's Kiss

In the book, Lupin described the Dementor's Kiss like this -

"They call it the Dementor's Kiss," said Lupin, with a slightly twisted smile. "It's what Dementors do to those they wish to destroy utterly. I suppose there must be some kind of mouth under there, because they clamp their jaws upon the mouth of the victim and - and suck out his soul."

But in the film, the Dementor just sort of hovered over Sirius and sucked out his soul by sucking at his face until a small, white glowing ball came out his mouth.

I just realised this. Anyone else realised? I wonder why it was changed. Maybe they thought it would look horrible with the clamping of jaws and it would scare the kids watching the film. Or maybe they thought it would look better visually on film to have a white glowing ball come out the mouth.

I'm not bothered by this or anything. It's just something I just realised.
Image
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post August 17th, 2014, 12:21 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

Maybe they decided to do it that way because those who haven't read the books might not have understood what was going on, if it had really been the kind of kiss that was described in the books. It would have been hard to visualise it - the little glowing ball made it more obvious.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 17th, 2014, 2:07 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

I didn't think that scene was good at all.There was so much wrong with it.
I'll describe the scene from my pov:I imagined the Dementors to look different and they don't fly,When i first saw it i didn't know what that little ball of light was(now that i know am i really supposed to believe that was his soul),was that meant to be the lake on the castle grounds? Harry's patronus has no shape and looks like a blinding wall of light(where's the stag)?
But yeah the Dementors kiss is all wrong.
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post August 17th, 2014, 10:01 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

Basically this is just another discussion about movie adaptions and how accurate they are/should be. I thought that they made a good job portraying the Dementors and they got the meaning of a Dementor's kiss across, which is all that matters in a movie. I find it tedious to complain about differences and deviations from the book, I simply don't mind them. Movies have to use other strategies than books and if that means that they can't show a scene like it was in the book to a hair's breadth, then so be it.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 18th, 2014, 12:27 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

DreamcoreAura wrote:Basically this is just another discussion about movie adaptions and how accurate they are/should be. I thought that they made a good job portraying the Dementors and they got the meaning of a Dementor's kiss across, which is all that matters in a movie. I find it tedious to complain about differences and deviations from the book, I simply don't mind them. Movies have to use other strategies than books and if that means that they can't show a scene like it was in the book to a hair's breadth, then so be it.

First of all it's in the wrong location,the Dementors don't actually suck out his soul in the book.They don't fly either which portrays them wrong.The biggest issue is Harry's Patronus.If i didn't read the book i would not have a clue what a Patronus was.It looks like a shield of light coming out of the wand.That doesn't portray what it actually should be.
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post August 18th, 2014, 11:31 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

kurgan wrote:First of all it's in the wrong location,the Dementors don't actually suck out his soul in the book.They don't fly either which portrays them wrong.The biggest issue is Harry's Patronus.If i didn't read the book i would not have a clue what a Patronus was.It looks like a shield of light coming out of the wand.That doesn't portray what it actually should be.

They didn't suck out Sirius' soul in the movie either. They nearly did, but Harry came in time and chased them off before the little ball that was Sirius' soul could completely leave his body.

Dementors do fly, it is mentioned in the books as well. It is described that they "hover above the ground".

In the third movie Harry's Patronuses were all non-corporeal except for the one he casted at the sea (when he was on the other side with Hermione), but they were Patronuses nonetheless.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 18th, 2014, 11:57 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

DreamcoreAura wrote:They didn't suck out Sirius' soul in the movie either. They nearly did, but Harry came in time and chased them off before the little ball that was Sirius' soul could completely leave his body.

His "soul" comes out of his mouth and then just goes back in.I thought it was stupid anyway.

DreamcoreAura wrote:Dementors do fly, it is mentioned in the books as well. It is described that they "hover above the ground".

Hover not fly.They don't fly around 50ft in the air.They just barely hover,gliding along.

DreamcoreAura wrote:In the third movie Harry's Patronuses were all non-corporeal except for the one he casted at the sea (when he was on the other side with Hermione), but they were Patronuses nonetheless.

In the book it was a corporeal Patronus he cast across the lake.In the movie it was a shield of light across a frozen pond in the forest.
Completely unnecessary changes.
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post August 18th, 2014, 1:21 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

If you are so stringent about deviations, then I believe there's nothing not to complain about for you. I mean, the things you mentioned are really minor. If you take everything about the movies so seriously, then probably nothing at all was made properly from your perception.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 18th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

All the minor changes add up and there was a lot of them in the rest of the films that do get annoying.The only reason there should be changes is to help the pace and the story.I don't think any of the ones they made did either.The scene we are talking about was completely changed,from the time they leave the Whomping Willow to the hospital wing.Was their any need?
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post August 18th, 2014, 2:52 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

The changes don't annoy me and generally nobody I know either. The filmmakers sure had reasons for doing things the way did it - as for what reasons that may have been, I have no idea, but I don't care either. Maybe the little ball should increase the tension. Or it should make it easier to understand what was going on.
(And by the way, in one scene there was actually a corporeal Patronus.)
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 18th, 2014, 3:01 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

All you have to do is look in the forums and see the many complaints from fans.
I just thought they could have done them better that's all.
<<

Lumiere

User avatar

Albus
Albus

Posts: 5701

Joined: June 15th, 2012, 3:18 am

Post August 19th, 2014, 10:01 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

I'm not that bothered when it comes to changes and omissions in a film. My main gripe is, I find if you change or omit too much, the non-readers (people who have not read the books) will get confused. And the movies, sorry to say, seem to aim towards HP readers.

Compared to the non-readers, we are better off because we have a wealth of information from the books to fill in the gaps, etc. They don't. The only unfortunate thing for us is, we don't get to see what we might want on screen. If you imagine and compare a non-reader getting all confused and asking, "What was that? What just happened there?" and a reader who says, "Urgh, they changed that. And they didn't show that scene!" I would say the non-reader is worst off. At least we're not coming away confused.

The main thing for me is, as a movie, it should be understood whether by readers or non-readers.

The other thing is that changing or leaving too much out in a movie can also cause some confusion for readers. There is a chance that we might mix things up a bit between what happened in the movie and what actually happened in the book. For me, for example, when I was discussing something in a thread a while ago, I remembered something from the movie and came to a conclusion that was in fact actually wrong because when I went back to read the passage in the book, I realised I had missed out on an important thing that the movie left out.

So it's things like this that makes me gripe sometimes.
Image
<<

World Engine

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1202

Joined: August 6th, 2014, 4:56 am

Location: London, England

Gender: Male

Post August 30th, 2014, 11:34 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

DreamcoreAura wrote:The changes don't annoy me and generally nobody I know either. The filmmakers sure had reasons for doing things the way did it - as for what reasons that may have been, I have no idea, but I don't care either. Maybe the little ball should increase the tension. Or it should make it easier to understand what was going on.
(And by the way, in one scene there was actually a corporeal Patronus.)


DreamcoreAura is absolutely right. I think one can be a little too pedantic about things. I'm not referring to any of us here but there are people who go a little over the top with their nitpicking. Anyone with at least a cursory understanding of what it means to make a film would know that there are sacrifices to be made at every corner, regardless of the size of the budget. There are a lot of things that simply cannot be adapted for film because of the difference in the medium. It's why they're called 'book-to-film adaptations'. First and foremost, it is essential to create a product that is best suited to its medium.
Image
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 31st, 2014, 4:19 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

Its Funny how every big scene after CoS was changed. How is it the first 2 films were able to follow the books but the rest weren't? Its Directors choice. They either do their own version or whats already written.
<<

World Engine

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1202

Joined: August 6th, 2014, 4:56 am

Location: London, England

Gender: Male

Post August 31st, 2014, 4:24 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

kurgan wrote:Its Funny how every big scene after CoS was changed. How is it the first 2 films were able to follow the books but the rest weren't? Its Directors choice. They either do their own version or whats already written.


Well, bear in mind books after CoS were significantly longer...
Image
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post August 31st, 2014, 6:13 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

Yes but why the need to change the scenes? For instance the one in this thread was changed. Harry running after a deadly werewolf and Hermione howling like one,then they get cornered by it only for Buckbeak to come out of nowhere. Totally unnecessary,it didn't help the story so why alter it?
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post September 1st, 2014, 2:54 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

kurgan wrote:Yes but why the need to change the scenes? For instance the one in this thread was changed. Harry running after a deadly werewolf and Hermione howling like one,then they get cornered by it only for Buckbeak to come out of nowhere. Totally unnecessary,it didn't help the story so why alter it?

It didn't help the story itself, yes, but it added some action and created tension. The filmmakers can't merely focus on the plot, it wouldn't work, a film needs more than that.

You can compare a movie to a ship. A ship can be magnificent to look upon, but it's useless ashore just as a movie is nonsensical without a plot. That's why a ship needs water and a movie needs a plot to live off. Filmmakers first look at the waters that they will have to deal with and then begin to create a construction plan for the ship. The important thing about that plan is that it's realisable. As long as it works, it doesn't matter if it's a small boat or a gigantic ship. Now you would have probably settled for a smaller ship that doesn't disturb the waters and leaves no traces behind, so as to leave the plot untouched and unchanged. But that's not what most people want to see. They want to see a spectacle, a richly decorated, mighty ship, and that's what David Yates gave them.

Ships aside, my point is that the task of filmmakers is to create a functioning entity, not a movie that is a 100% copy of the book. JKR's weapons were words, but mere words are not sufficient for a film. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's a reason it's called 'movie adaption', not 'movie imitation'.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post September 1st, 2014, 4:34 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

Its been awhile since ive seen the film but does Hermione say we mustn't attract attention to ourselves or we cant be seen after they use the time turner.The point i'm trying to make is it contradicts the story.She cant be saying that then start howling attracting attention to themselves.Remember they must not be seen.
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post September 1st, 2014, 5:20 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

kurgan wrote:Its been awhile since ive seen the film but does Hermione say we mustn't attract attention to ourselves or we cant be seen after they use the time turner.The point i'm trying to make is it contradicts the story.She cant be saying that then start howling attracting attention to themselves.Remember they must not be seen.

She did this in an attempt do save Sirius' and Harry's lives, which was more important than not being seen.

Furthermore it's werewolf-Lupin that we're talking about. As long as he was in his wolf form, he didn't differentiate between humans and his logical thinking was more or less switched off, so for the moment it didn't matter that he saw them. He neither recognised them nor did he make up his mind as to why there were two Harrys and Hermiones.

Of course he would have memorised the incident afterwards, when he regained his human form again. But by then it was irrelevant. He was involved in the whole matter and chain of events anyway. Lupin was no enemy and probably he also talked everything over with Dumbledore, so for Harry and Hermione there was no danger in showing themselves.
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post September 2nd, 2014, 12:01 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

I just don't agree with the unnecessary changes unless it helps the story.
<<

World Engine

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1202

Joined: August 6th, 2014, 4:56 am

Location: London, England

Gender: Male

Post September 2nd, 2014, 12:15 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

kurgan wrote:I just don't agree with the unnecessary changes unless it helps the story.


It does help the story but not from your perspective (because you've read the books). The films can't assume that people have read the books and they can't fit every single detail into the film (unless the film is ridiculously long) so they compromise by making sure that the film itself works as a whole. How well it does that can be subjective (as I agree with you that they've messed up plenty of times) but the point is that the adaptation must be something that can be enjoyed and understood on its own merit.
Image
<<

raclle

Auror
Auror

Posts: 3803

Joined: May 10th, 2014, 10:59 pm

Gender: Male

Post September 2nd, 2014, 8:42 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

World Engine wrote:How well it does that can be subjective (as I agree with you that they've messed up plenty of times) but the point is that the adaptation must be something that can be enjoyed and understood on its own merit.

Which of course they are not. The first 2 films are good adaptations, PoA is probably the best as a stand alone, the rest are neither.
<<

hayden_potter

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1325

Joined: January 9th, 2009, 5:05 pm

Post September 6th, 2014, 10:10 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

If my memory serves, the dementors DO fly in the books, because they chased after the Quidditch players (in particular Harry). If they didn't, how would Harry, who is countless feet in the air, still be affected by them?
Image
Image
<<

DreamcoreAura

User avatar

Third Year
Third Year

Posts: 378

Joined: August 1st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Gender: Female

Post September 6th, 2014, 2:35 pm

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

hayden_potter wrote:If my memory serves, the dementors DO fly in the books, because they chased after the Quidditch players (in particular Harry). If they didn't, how would Harry, who is countless feet in the air, still be affected by them?

I think that in the books they didn't actually try to chase or attack the players, they only came onto the Quidditch field without doing further harm (which was bad enough for Harry), but I'm not sure. It does, however, say that they hover above the ground, which is basically synonymous to 'fly'. And even if JKR didn't imagine them to fly (maybe they're only supposed to float a few inches above the ground), I wouldn't consider it a major change.
<<

World Engine

User avatar

Hogwarts Graduate
Hogwarts Graduate

Posts: 1202

Joined: August 6th, 2014, 4:56 am

Location: London, England

Gender: Male

Post September 7th, 2014, 3:12 am

Re: The Dementor's Kiss

DreamcoreAura wrote:
hayden_potter wrote:If my memory serves, the dementors DO fly in the books, because they chased after the Quidditch players (in particular Harry). If they didn't, how would Harry, who is countless feet in the air, still be affected by them?

I think that in the books they didn't actually try to chase or attack the players, they only came onto the Quidditch field without doing further harm (which was bad enough for Harry), but I'm not sure. It does, however, say that they hover above the ground, which is basically synonymous to 'fly'. And even if JKR didn't imagine them to fly (maybe they're only supposed to float a few inches above the ground), I wouldn't consider it a major change.


Yes, exactly. You must account for artistic expression when adapting from one medium to another. As someone who's been around the film industry, I can tell you that they generally explore all avenues. They will have had their 3D artists create Dementors in a variety of guises and they must have decided that flying Dementors looked the best (as a visual spectacle). If the film studio is nice, and I do believe Warner Brothers did consult with JK on certain things, then she will have told them that flying Dementoids or whatever they're called would not break the story. In fact, I can tell you that in any situation where an adaptation is being made while the source material is still in development (manga to anime being a typical example) then the studio would consult with the author and make sure that any changes they make (for any of a myriad of perfectly valid reasons) does not compromise the story that has yet to unfold. They did that with Kreacher. The director had not wanted Kreacher in it but JK told them he was to play an important role in the future. As I understand it, they'd had to rewrite large segments of the the script in an attempt to not make Kreacher seem a shoe-horned addition.

As I say, the film makers are not perfect. The Harry Potter movies are not exactly masterpieces of modern cinema but, and I hate to say this, it had more to do with their inability to write a gripping film coupled with the incredible pressure the producers and investors would lay on you to deliver on time, than it did with them simply not caring. They do care. They do want to create a product that people love but it hardly ever works that way anymore. But it's a "product" and it needs to sell. And the unfortunate reality is that you need to keep your investors happy first and foremost. I agree with everyone here (ignore the dichotomy) but I ask, as an avid film student and writer, please do not be too harsh on the people who worked so hard to bring us an enjoyable experience. It can't always be perfect.
Image
Next

Return to Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest