of course not. frankly speaking i was disgusted with him... and the nerve to tell snape that he was disgusting to let harry die instead of lily... at least snape was acting what he felt... its quite normal you know... but dumbledore... until he wore that gaunt ring, he still didnt learn his lesson. _________________
Yes, he changed greatly from his younger days. and even though he was "raising harry like a pig to the slaughter" so to speak...well he had this planned before he knew him, and even Harry knew that it had to be that way...but that is made ok for me by the fact that he really did love Harry. I would have been disgusted if it had all been an act, but it wasn't. He loved Harry and that made it hard for him, but Voldy would have kept trying to kill Harry anyway. DD just made sure Harry could take Voldy down with him, and possibly even survive. My respect for Albus has greatly improved. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
he did what he had to do. He loved harry like a son. Harry was raised like a pig because that was what needed to happen for the good of billions of others. He changed from his younger years yes, but what he did was justified.
Oh and by the way DD was discusted when snape told him to kill harry instead of lilly
We all had the "shock" in book 7 when we found out he lead Harry to the slaughter, but think about his situation:
1: In book 5 Voldemort runs. How could Dumbledore defeat him?
2: What the hell was Dumbledore supposed to do? He had the monumental of destroying the Horcruxes (there was 7 PLUS Tom Riddle himself) AND kill the dark lord. Unless all that is done, the threat of horrible evil reamains.
In Year 5 Dumbledore said he made a mistake with Sirius Black & Harry. But the fact was, he wanted to keep Sirius safe, & if Harry had bothered to learn Occlumency, his plan would have worked. His plan was good.
On a final note, Dumbledore made the mistake of putting on the ring because he wanted to see his Mom & sister. Besides the fact he was probably messed up (think the green liquid), wouldn't Harry have wanted the same thing? Harry was not the better man.
Well he definitely wasn't the saintly old man I thought he was, but we all get disillusioned here and there.
I think, though, the fact that he decided to back away from the taste of power and its associated evils makes him an even greater person than if he'd just been on the straight path all along.
So Dumbledore may not have been the saint JK Rowling orginally convinvced us of, but he was one of the most powerful wizards to have ever lived. Yes, in fact, if it had not been for Dumbledore, then Harry would be dead and the rest of the wizarding world would be in hiding or at the command of Voldemort. It was Dumbledores plan that, although there were events that caused it to be varied from his original, ultimately lead to the downfall of Voldemort. I do not think that it would have been possible without him. Just like he was obligated to defeat Grindewald when he was becoming too powerful, it was his duty as the most powerful wizard in the world to do something against Voldemort. So maybe he did plan for Harry to die in the end, but do not think that this was not troubling to him. I think it was probably harder for Dumbledore to go through with his plans than anyone else, because he loved Harry. But Dumbledore knew better than anyone else, that it had to happen. And once again, it was his duty to see through to it. Because if he hadn't, then Voldemort would rise to power which he desired, and both the wizarding world and muggles alike stood no chance.
I think you have to understand the pressure that he was under. What were his choices? Do as he planned, or protect Harry for as long as he lived, and let the rest of the world deal with Voldemort when he passed? I think he had only one GOOD choice, and he went with it.
also, it wasn't like Voldemort was just going to leave Harry alone. He wouldn't give up until he killed him. The only choice Dumbledore had was to teach Harry enough so that he could die like a man, and take as many death eaters/bits of soul down with him as he could. Oh, and he had a hunch as of GoF that he might actually survive and be able to finish off voldy himself. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
All I have to say about DD's actions (not as a younger man but his plan involving Harry) is shocking. If he's as smart as he claims he is, you would think he could have at least thought of some sort of backup plan. But it always shows he didn't trust Harry to deal with his emotions, he would never tell him the whole truth, until it was already done. _________________
I disagree. If he had told Harry at the end of OotP that he was going to die at the end of it all he might not have had the heart to go on. All throughout the horcrux hunt he had hope, imagine going through all of that knowing you're doomed. I think by not telling Harry until he had to, he save him a lot of pain and heart ache.
and what back-up plan would you suggest? Voldy could have never died if Harry didn't. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
I disagree with that, if DD really thought Harry wouldn't have the heart to go on. I think it's a crock to even consider Harry isn't brave enough to have done what he needed to do.
"Let's just wait till the last minute to tell him then he can't back out of the plan."
I'm sorry but that's a crock of crap.
I'm not saying it isn't a valid opinion for DD to think this way, but it just shows what a magnificent bastard he truly was. It's obvious he knew how to manipulate and use people, even if it was for 'the greater good'.
He used Snape just as much, if not more than Harry IMO.
Thing is, Snape and Harry both allowed themselves to be used... For different reasons. Snape knew he was being used pretty much, I think but Harry just had this eternal trust in this mentor and in the end, had no real basis for having that trust.
He told him that he was going to tell him everything at the end of OOTP... What a surprise, it was a lie. While he might have had a good reason for lying, it was still a lie, no matter what way you want to look at it. _________________
Dumbledore didn't use them, he utilized them. Snape could have backed out, Harry could have backed out. but they went through with it. Using also implies to me that you don't care about the people except for what they can do for you. Dumbledore cared about them very much. There was really no other option but to go forward with his plan. Its not like Voldemort would have given up on trying to kill Harry. Dumbledore just trained Harry and equipped him with the knowledge to take at least bits of voldemort down with him, and if his theory was correct, maybe even survive. It would have been bastardish NOT to have done all he did. Just let him be happy and ignorant and then DIE without a chance to fight back at all. and then what about the rest of the world? They'd have to suffer too, so that Harry could be happy, and then DIE. What would have been bastardish is if he took Harry to say a cliff or a tower, told him "sorry mate but you have to die" and then pushed him off of it. He let Harry do it on his own terms, Harry could have even not gone through with it if he didn't want to.
you are right, he didn't tell Harry everything at the end of OotP, and that was a lie. But I don't think that makes him a bastard. Everybody lies.
oh and hey! Dumbledore wasn't even sure his horcrux theory was correct until he saw Slughorns memory. So if he wasn't certain there were horcruxes in OotP, he wasn't certain that Harry would have to die. and thats not the sort of thing you should tell someone unless you are certain it has to be that way. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
Dumbledore didn't use them, he utilized them. Snape could have backed out, Harry could have backed out. but they went through with it. Using also implies to me that you don't care about the people except for what they can do for you. Dumbledore cared about them very much. There was really no other option but to go forward with his plan. Its not like Voldemort would have given up on trying to kill Harry. Dumbledore just trained Harry and equipped him with the knowledge to take at least bits of voldemort down with him, and if his theory was correct, maybe even survive. It would have been bastardish NOT to have done all he did. Just let him be happy and ignorant and then DIE without a chance to fight back at all. and then what about the rest of the world? They'd have to suffer too, so that Harry could be happy, and then DIE. What would have been bastardish is if he took Harry to say a cliff or a tower, told him "sorry mate but you have to die" and then pushed him off of it. He let Harry do it on his own terms, Harry could have even not gone through with it if he didn't want to.
you are right, he didn't tell Harry everything at the end of OotP, and that was a lie. But I don't think that makes him a bastard. Everybody lies.
oh and hey! Dumbledore wasn't even sure his horcrux theory was correct until he saw Slughorns memory. So if he wasn't certain there were horcruxes in OotP, he wasn't certain that Harry would have to die. and thats not the sort of thing you should tell someone unless you are certain it has to be that way.
nicely put mate!
Dumbledore always knew what would happen, even though he never let on much. He knew what would happen with snape, knew harry would go in for voldemort, knew voldemort would again try and kill harry. So in a sense dumbledore always knew..even as unsure as he was...he knew harry would live.
yea so he screwed up his child hood. big deal. i think hes somewhat made up for it, even if he should have done more. like told harry what he had to do. i understand that harry had to figure stuff out by himself, but he should have said he was going to die. i think snape is just as noble as dumbledore _________________
Nobody seems the least bit sympathetic toward the position that Dumbledore was in. As the most powerful and probably the most intelligent wizard in the world, of course most people are going to look to him for guidance in such troubled times, and - of course, expect him to do something about these troubles! And rightfully so. It certainly is Dumbledores responsability to do something to help in the fight against Voldemort, and he did what he had to. Let us also not forget that it worked. Does no one think that Dumbledore was not making sacrifices? He sacrificed the people the he was close to AND himself against Voldemort, and yes, he did manipulate the truth to set his plans in motion, but once again - what was to be expected of him?
And as for Harry having no basis in his trust for his mentor? What, the fact that Dumbledores plan ultimately led to the downfall of Voldemort wasn't enough reason to him? Personally, I beg to differ.
And so, I think Harry would too. After all, he did name his son after him.
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