but people didn't group up...you didn't know if one of those you grouped with would betray you or turn out to be a sympathizer or under the imperius curse. and there would probably be some informant near by who would tell the Death Eaters that all your family moved in and they would be ready. and if somebody came knocking at your door...you're not going to automatically sling Avada Kedavra out of it...you'll want to know who it is first. however if it was a Death Eater they wouldn't hesitate to immediately throw a nasty curse. and not even all the death eaters knew who the other death eaters were...so you can't say they could have just checked who it was first. I doubt they'd even knock on the door.
Well, if you have close friends like Dumbledore who you know wouldn't sympathize with them, or a big family, then your good. Also, to make sure some aren't under the imperious curse, maybe you make up a codeword that they have to say when they meet you, to prove that there not being controlled. But there in your post lies the problem. They didnt group up. Its like if a group of people started messing with you at school. So you group up with the rest of your friends, and either you all fight it out, or if you have more friends with you then they do, and you outnumber them,they backdown.
I read your post, and I know who Rasputin is. Youv'e just been ignoring my question. I will repeat it. slowly. My question is not why they didnt just kill off Voldemort.
THEY COULDN'T GET TO HIM! THEY COULDN'T FIND HIM!
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My question is why did everyone fear him,(which helped him rise into power) when there all as DANGEROUS to him, as he is to them???
They feared him because he KILLED people. NOT everyone could perform the Killing Curse, especially not the students and babies. Those who could kill him COULDN'T GET TO HIM.
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The main difference between Osama and Voldemort, is no one talked about how powerful Osama literally was, why because if you have a gun, then your as powerful as Osama by himself.
Osama Bin Laden is still out there. ALIVE. You find it SO hard to believe that Voldemort is still alive, yet we having NON-fictional proof that it is completely possib le for a dictator to be on the loose.
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It took so long to take down Hitler and the Nazis because the European alliance, forgot what they were called, couldn't decide when to act against him.
They were called the Allies and you're wrong.
The Allies NEVER kiled Hitler, he killed himself.
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And in all the towns/cities/countries, if every single one of the people had a gun, kinda like all the wizards have a wand, then would the countries have let Hitler invade them.
Again, you're wrong. Not every wizard is able to defend themselves. Hences the reason for Dumbledore's Army, so Harry could teach them. Harry himself had to learn, not from school, but from his own studying how to defend himself.
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If all the Jews had guns, and were willing to use them, would they have let Hitler move them to the concentration camps.
Again, you're wrong. NOT every wizard can defend themselves. NOT every Jew was able to defend themselves. Ah, are you finally catching on to the similarities?
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Have you been skimming through my post or something. Here if you manage not to skim through this part, answer me this.............If you were in Harry Potter, and your were an adult wizard, and you had a big connection of friends, that all lived around the same area, and you all knew the Avada Kedavra curse, would you really be afraid of Voldemort???Would you really be afraid of his Death Eaters??? I wouldn't, not only that, if one of his Death Eaters came, I might knock him out, Polyjuice potion him, and take his place, and maybe get rid of Voldemort myself. And since I know you like to skim thru my post, my point isn't that people should try to kill Voldie and his group, my point is if you have a big enough group of friends or family, and your willing to kill with your wand, WOULD YOU FEAR HIM?
I'll repeat myself.... since no, you obviously didn't read my posts...Dumbledore said, that the first time around Voldemort took them by surprise and the Order was outnumbered. So, no, a big group of friends wouldn't have worked, because the DE had more friends than you and were more capable of violent acts.
This time around, Fudge ignored the warnings and he was too late, the Ministrty had already been infiltrated.
Good luck trusting your friends, just like James trusted Wormtail. Your plan would have failed, just like Sirius's plan did. You talk about how you have more people... well JKR actually answered that question for you. James trusted his friends and it led to his death.
In order to make polyjuice potion of a Death Eater, you would need a piece of him. Good luck with that. Harry did that with Yaxley. The potion wore off and they got caught. Hermione did that with Bellatrix. And got caught. But obviously you are better than Harry and Hermione, two of the most powerful wizards for their age. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate. ~ Bob Dylan
I read your post, and I know who Rasputin is. Youv'e just been ignoring my question. I will repeat it. slowly. My question is not why they didnt just kill off Voldemort.
[quote="GinnyX"][THEY COULDN'T GET TO HIM! THEY COULDN'T FIND HIM!
No point in you saying that, since thats not my question.
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My question is why did everyone fear him,(which helped him rise into power) when there all as DANGEROUS to him, as he is to them???
[quote="GinnyX"][They feared him because he KILLED people. NOT everyone could perform the Killing Curse, especially not the students and babies. Those who could kill him COULDN'T GET TO HIM.
As ive been saying, adults, grown ups, and yes, despite what you say I think anyone, any competent wizard can perform the killing curse, do I have to go back to the harry-doing-the crucio-curse-after-one-lesson-a year-later-thing again
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The main difference between Osama and Voldemort, is no one talked about how powerful Osama literally was, why because if you have a gun, then your as powerful as Osama by himself.
[quote="GinnyX"][Osama Bin Laden is still out there. ALIVE. You find it SO hard to believe that Voldemort is still alive, yet we having NON-fictional proof that it is completely possib le for a dictator to be on the loose.
I dont see how I find it hard to see how Voldemorts still alive. I find it hard to see why everyone feared him so much. Stop bringing it back to Voldemort being dead or alive, thats not the point, FEAR is the point.
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It took so long to take down Hitler and the Nazis because the European alliance, forgot what they were called, couldn't decide when to act against him.
[quote="GinnyX"][They were called the Allies and you're wrong.
The Allies NEVER kiled Hitler, he killed himself.
I never said the Allies killed Hitler, and im right about them taking along time to act against them. Hed promise them not to continue invading if they let him have a country, the Allies would agree, then hed just doublecross them and keep on doing what he wanted.
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And in all the towns/cities/countries, if every single one of the people had a gun, kinda like all the wizards have a wand, then would the countries have let Hitler invade them.
[quote="GinnyX"][Again, you're wrong. Not every wizard is able to defend themselves. Hences the reason for Dumbledore's Army, so Harry could teach them. Harry himself had to learn, not from school, but from his own studying how to defend himself.
Again I will say, that Ive mostly been talking about adults, wizards who have already graduated a school. And on top of that theres no defense against the Avada Kedavra curse, just dont let it hit you.
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If all the Jews had guns, and were willing to use them, would they have let Hitler move them to the concentration camps.
[quote="GinnyX"][Again, you're wrong. NOT every wizard can defend themselves. NOT every Jew was able to defend themselves. Ah, are you finally catching on to the similarities?
All it takes is for one competent group to start the uprising. And are you seeing the similarity between Jews with guns, and wizards with wands. If only all the jews had guns.
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Have you been skimming through my post or something. Here if you manage not to skim through this part, answer me this.............If you were in Harry Potter, and your were an adult wizard, and you had a big connection of friends, that all lived around the same area, and you all knew the Avada Kedavra curse, would you really be afraid of Voldemort???Would you really be afraid of his Death Eaters??? I wouldn't, not only that, if one of his Death Eaters came, I might knock him out, Polyjuice potion him, and take his place, and maybe get rid of Voldemort myself. And since I know you like to skim thru my post, my point isn't that people should try to kill Voldie and his group, my point is if you have a big enough group of friends or family, and your willing to kill with your wand, WOULD YOU FEAR HIM?
[quote="GinnyX"]
GinnyX wrote:
ce no, you obviously didn't read my posts...Dumbledore said, that the first time around Voldemort took them by surprise and the Order was outnumbered. So, no, a big group of friends wouldn't have worked, because the DE had more friends than you and were more capable of violent acts.
This time around, Fudge ignored the warnings and he was too late, the Ministrty had already been infiltrated.
Good luck trusting your friends, just like James trusted Wormtail. Your plan would have failed, just like Sirius's plan did. You talk about how you have more people... well JKR actually answered that question for you. James trusted his friends and it led to his death.
First of all you dont know if the Death Eaters had more friends then any other group, you just assumed that. Second of all I said friends, like Dumbledore, who you know hates the dark arts, or you all talk to or hang out with on a daily basis, who wouldnt betray you, and I said, family, there are some people with huge families. So if I was in Harry Potter, my plan would have worked, cuz if I was in James shoes, no one except Dumbledore would know where I was. And another thing Im not talking about me hiding out like James did. Im talking about all my close, trusted friends, my Jeesh, staying around the same area. Putting the charm that Hermione used on their camp in the Deathly hallows. Putting an anti-apparate charm. And if the Death Eaters come knocking, theyll find 50 wands shooting Avada Kedavra at them.
[quote="GinnyX"][In order to make polyjuice potion of a Death Eater, you would need a piece of him. Good luck with that. Harry did that with Yaxley. The potion wore off and they got caught. Hermione did that with Bellatrix. And got caught. But obviously you are better than Harry and Hermione, two of the most powerful wizards for their age.
And if you reread my post, I said knock out a Death Eater, which means I would OBVIOUSLY have a piece of him to use for the potion. And maybe if Hermione and Harry were good actors. Maybe if they scoped out how their victim behaved, before taking his place. They wouldnt have got caught. And the answer to it wearing off. Keep a bunch of flasks of the polyjuice potion. And drink it when it begins to wear off. And on a final note, how are Harry and Hermione the most powerful wizards of their age, since all competent wizards, can do the same spell as them. When it comes to being a good wizard in the Harry Potter World. All you need is good memory, to remember your spells, fast reflexes for using your spells. And to know as many spells as you can. Theres no such thing as a more powerful wizard, just a wizard who knows more spells then you. I admit there are some incompetent wizards who suck at doing spells, but that doesn't mean that a normal wizard is more POWERFUL then them.So no, Harry and Hermione arent the most powerful wizards of their age.
Last edited by CezeN on July 3, 2008 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
then why do they all need to PRACTICE? there is skill and talent involved...not just memory. its obviously not just a matter of waving your wand and saying the right words. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
As ive been saying, adults, grown ups, and yes, despite what you say I think anyone, any competent wizard can perform the killing curse, do I have to go back to the harry-doing-the crucio-curse-after-one-lesson-a year-later-thing again
No, not all adults could perform this spell. And no one lived long enough to perform it on Voldemort.
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I dont see how I find it hard to see how Voldemorts still alive. I find it hard to see why everyone feared him so much. Stop bringing it back to Voldemort being dead or alive, thats not the point, FEAR is the point.
They were afraid of him because he killed people. And not just soldiers.... but innocent bystanders. That whole family was killed by him, the woman and the children.
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I never said the Allies killed Hitler, and im right about them taking along time to act against them. Hed promise them not to continue invading if they let him have a country, the Allies would agree, then hed just doublecross them and keep on doing what he wanted.
So... I think you just answered your own question. England was invaded by Hitler. England was invaded by Voldemort. They took a long time to act against Hitler. They took a long time to act against Voldemort.
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Again I will say, that Ive mostly been talking about adults, wizards who have already graduated a school. And on top of that theres no defense against the Avada Kedavra curse, just dont let it hit you.
LMAO, yeah, quick, DUCK!
Harry and Hermion e were adults, by wizarding standards. Most adults couldn't perform the Killing Curse. And those that could died trying.
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All it takes is for one competent group to start the uprising. And are you seeing the similarity between Jews with guns, and wizards with wands. If only all the jews had guns.
A group to start an uprising... hmmm.... you mean like... THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX?
Alas, not all the Jews had guns. Not that it would matter, when the Nazis showed up already pointing theirs.
Not all the adults knew the Killing Curse.
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First of all you dont know if the Death Eaters had more friends then any other group, you just assumed that.
I didn't realize you already had a gang put together.
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Second of all I said friends, like Dumbledore, who you know hates the dark arts, or you all talk to or hang out with on a daily basis, who wouldnt betray you, and I said, family, there are some people with huge families.
They thought Wormtail was their best friend. It doesn't get much closer than that,
Families also betrayed each other. Look at the Blacks. Look at the Weasleys, even Percy turned his back on his family.
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So if I was in Harry Potter, my plan would have worked, cuz if I was in James shoes, no one except Dumbledore would know where I was. And another thing Im not talking about me hiding out like James did. Im talking about all my close, trusted friends, my Jeesh, staying around the same area. Putting the charm that Hermione used on their camp in the Deathly hallows. Putting an anti-apparate charm. And if the Death Eaters come knocking, theyll find 50 wands shooting Avada Kedavra at them.
And when one of those wands turns on you... DUCK!
That was the problem, though.. you couldnt' trust everyone. It's not realistic. Good luck finding five people to trust... but 50? That was what made Voldemort's reign so terrifying, no one knew who they really could trust or not.
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And if you reread my post, I said knock out a Death Eater, which means I would OBVIOUSLY have a piece of him to use for the potion.
Umm... like how they stunned Mafalda? You're acting like you'd have done better than them, but so far you aren't coming up with anything new.
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And maybe if Hermione and Harry were good actors. Maybe if they scoped out how their victim behaved, before taking his place. They wouldnt have got caught. And the answer to it wearing off. Keep a bunch of flasks of the polyjuice potion. And drink it when it begins to wear off. And on a final note, how are Harry and Hermione the most powerful wizards of their age, since all competent wizards, can do the same spell as them. When it comes to being a good wizard in the Harry Potter World. All you need is good memory, to remember your spells, fast reflexes for using your spells. And to know as many spells as you can. Theres no such thing as a more powerful wizard, just a wizard who knows more spells then you. I admit there are some incompetent wizards who suck at doing spells, but that doesn't mean that a normal wizard is more POWERFUL then them.So no, Harry and Hermione arent the most powerful wizards of their age.
Arabella answered this one for you.
Wow... you should have written these books instead of J.K. Rowling. Then there would be no story, no metaphors... no plot. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate. ~ Bob Dylan
then why do they all need to PRACTICE? there is skill and talent involved...not just memory. its obviously not just a matter of waving your wand and saying the right words.
They need to practice, because they need to get the wand motions right, while enunciating it right, thats the reason they need to practice. If its not perfectly right, then the spell wont work. But, there are some spells where you just point the wand, and then enunciate the word correctly, the crucio curse. Or at least thats how it seems.
exactly so not everybody can ennunciate as well or move quite correctly. some people are simply better than others. so not everybody is as powerful/dangerous. there's also the amount of spells you know and how dangerous they are. the death eaters are a lot more likely to use nasty spells, while the average witch or wizard would hesitate before doing something so hideous. such as Avada Kedavra, its not as simple as doing it, you must come to terms with taking another person's life. its not quite the same as shooting a gun at an intruder...you could just injure them, death isn't certain. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
yall are getting offtopic, but yall still haven't actually answered my question, or realized what im saying
I haven't seen any one get off-topic . . .
CezeN wrote:
1. Lolzinja, who says not many people can use Avada Kedavra effectively, I mean, its seems basically like if you know the words and how to enunciate them, you can do it...
GoF, American ed. Page 217 "Avada Kedavra's curse needs a powerful bit of magice behind it."
CezeN wrote:
for example, Harry did the crucio curse on Bellatrix that one time, he did it right, but he wasn't doing it to hurt her, so it didnt hurt as much as it should,
OotP, American Ed. Page 810 "Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before He flung himself out from behind the fountan and bellowed Crucio!"
You're telling me he didn't want to hurt her? Think about the parental figure whom you love the most. Now imagine that some one caused the death of your loved one right in front of your eyes. How much would you hate that person? Now multiply that hatred times 100. A parental figure was what Harry wanted the most his entire life. He finally got that, and it was snatched out from underneath of him in a hearbeat. He was pissed. He wanted to hurt Bellatrix. He just wasn't powerful enough to pull the spell off yet. If anger that powerful didn't allow him to pull it off properly, then it's obviously a difficult spell.
CezeN wrote:
other than that, the only time prior he was shown how to do it, was a year ago in Mad Eyes class, in one lesson, so if after one lesson he can do the curse a year later, I think that shows how easy it is to use unforgiveable curses, no training involved.
OotP, Amercan ed. Pages 810-811 "'Never used an unforgivable curse before, have you, boy?' she yelled. She had abandoned her baby voice now. 'You have to [i[mean[/i] them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long -- I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson --'
Apparently Bellatrix thought that using the cruciatus curse involved training. Two paragraphs later, she went on to say:
"'I was and am the Dark Lord's servant, I learned the Dark Arts from him, and I know spells of such power that you, pathetic litte boy can never hope to compete with --'"
If all that there is to perfoming a spell is saying the incantation correctly, then why would Bellatrix have been required to be trained by Voldemort? Also, if Voldemort taught his death eaters dark magic that people who know the unfogivable curses can't compete with, then apparently neither Voldemort, nor his death eaters could have been that easy to kill.
CezeN wrote:
ESpecially since he did the curse right,
He said the correct incantation, but he was not yet powerful enough to do the spell right, or else he would have caused unbearable pain. That was sort of the reason that Jo added that bit to the book.
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but as the author has showed harry is much too nice, always using expelliarmus, for the curse to hurt as much as it would normally. So yes, ANY wizard, any grown wizard, could have killed Voldemort before the first book.
Not just any wizard can perform the unforgivable curses. I don't you are understanding the fact that, even at fifteen, Harry was more powerful than a vast majority of adult wizards. There are adult wizards who cannot even perform a patronus charm. The fact that Harry could not properly execute a cruciatus curse properly is a testament to the level of difficulty that it takes to perform the curse.
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2. Ginny X, Im not talking about why they didnt just kill him, Im talking about why they exaggerated how invincible he was and why they were all so scared of him,
They were scared of him, because he practically was invincible. I mean, no one knew about the horcruxes, but Voldemorts was very powerful. He had friends in high places, and those friends worshipped him. That's very dangerous. He also only had sneak attacks. People never knew when he was coming with his group of followers to terrorize them.
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The only reason that Voldemort and his Death Eaters rose to power, is because everyone feared them,
Wrong. The only reason that Voldemort rose to power is because he was very powerful and sneaky. People did not fear him before he rose to power. They liked him. That was how he wsa able to trick so many people and get his hands on powerful objects and information about powerful magic. Once he had that, he was unstoppable. Go back and read the memories in the pernsieve in HBP.
CezeN wrote:
but my point is that they shouldn't fear him, because any grown wizard has the potential, to kill Voldemort, or any of his Death Eaters,
Again, most grown wizards aren't that powerful. HAving a wand isn't equal to having a gun if you haven't been trained to use it as a weapon. Wizards aren't taught how to perform dark magic, and their DADA training is very limited. They can only be shown so many defenses at Hogwarts, and Voldemort knew magic that most people never even heard of. There are many reasons to fear Voldemort.
CezeN wrote:
so if his Death Eaters comes terrorizing your family, you just move in with another family or 3 and if they come a knocking, you just Avada Kedavra them, if you group up with enough people you won't be outnumbered, so you should be able to win. Probably why Voldemort wanted to be immortal in the first place, cuz he probably knew that any half-way competent adult wizard with a wand, could possibly get lucky and kill him.
Like I said earlier, a wand is not equal to a deadly weapon without the proper training. Also, Voldemort catches people off-guard, and usually those people don't have their wands in hand when he sneaks into their households. If Voldemort comes to terrorize your household, the chances are that you are not going to get out of there alive. Voldemort shows up with many other people, and they don't just let people live out of the goodness of their hearts. They would rather use random victims as target practice. As far as living with multiple families, that seems like more of a danger. It makes multiple targets into one target. That way when Voldemort finds one family, he finds the whole slew of them and can just off more people at that time.
CezeN wrote:
Now, I will state my question that yall haven't been answering, King818 has the right idea, Fear is a very powerful weapon that Voldemort utilized, why did everyone fear Voldemort and his Death Eaters, when all the grown wizards are just as dangerous as him?
Like I said before, all adults wizards are not equal in power, knowledge, and ability. Voldemort was extremely powerful, talented, intelligent, and heartless. This is a horribley deadly combination, and something that any one should fear.
[quote="CezeN]
Why did everyone let themselves get pushed around by his Death Eaters(and him) when there all as dangerous/deadly as them, and all they had to do was gang up with their other friends, and if they had a big group, they have the advantage over the Death Eaters............................
[/quote]
They had not choice. The death eaters were careful to catch then when they were most vulnerable. _________________
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As ive been saying, adults, grown ups, and yes, despite what you say I think anyone, any competent wizard can perform the killing curse, do I have to go back to the harry-doing-the crucio-curse-after-one-lesson-a year-later-thing again
[quote="GinnyX"][No, not all adults could perform this spell. And no one lived long enough to perform it on Voldemort.
Theres no evidence in the book that shows that not all adults could peform the spell. Most likely, most didnt use it because it is an Unforgiveable Curse, but still thats stupid, normal people wouldnt care how Unforgiveable it is if there lifes in danger
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I dont see how I find it hard to see how Voldemorts still alive. I find it hard to see why everyone feared him so much. Stop bringing it back to Voldemort being dead or alive, thats not the point, FEAR is the point.
[quote="GinnyX"][They were afraid of him because he killed people. And not just soldiers.... but innocent bystanders. That whole family was killed by him, the woman and the children.
That doesnt make any sense. Why should they be afraid of him cuz he killed people when they can kill just as easily as him. Killing people isn't that hard to do in a world of magic, in Harry Potter. Just one wand motion and one word.
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I never said the Allies killed Hitler, and im right about them taking along time to act against them. Hed promise them not to continue invading if they let him have a country, the Allies would agree, then hed just doublecross them and keep on doing what he wanted.
[quote="GinnyX"][So... I think you just answered your own question. England was invaded by Hitler. England was invaded by Voldemort. They took a long time to act against Hitler. They took a long time to act against Voldemort.
Ok so Ive answered my question. Lets check and see if thats right. Why did everyone fear Voldemort, and co, when most everyones just as dangerous as him???Because Voldemort invaded England and people took too long to act against him. Nope, doesnt fit. How many times do I have to repeat my question, before you actually learn what my question is?
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Again I will say, that Ive mostly been talking about adults, wizards who have already graduated a school. And on top of that theres no defense against the Avada Kedavra curse, just dont let it hit you.
LMAO, yeah, quick, DUCK!
[quote="GinnyX"][Harry and Hermion e were adults, by wizarding standards. Most adults couldn't perform the Killing Curse. And those that could died trying.
Still dont know why your saying most adults couldnt perform the killing curse. I bet Harry and Hermione could do it, too bad they never tried. Probably because there the main protagonist and that would make them look bad.
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All it takes is for one competent group to start the uprising. And are you seeing the similarity between Jews with guns, and wizards with wands. If only all the jews had guns.
[quote="GinnyX"][A group to start an uprising... hmmm.... you mean like... THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX?
Alas, not all the Jews had guns. Not that it would matter, when the Nazis showed up already pointing theirs.
Not all the adults knew the Killing Curse.
First of all the Order wasn't big enough. Second, if they were smart, theyd just tell everyone join the Order, well teach you how to fight Death Eaters and kill them with one curse. But, then again most probably already knew.
Just jokin, I guess the Order was ok. Just needed more members
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First of all you dont know if the Death Eaters had more friends then any other group, you just assumed that.
[quote="GinnyX"][I didn't realize you already had a gang put together.
Yep, cuz thats basically what Voldemort and co was. A gang. And the only thing that can stop a gang from messing with you, is another gang. Voldemort just needed a rival gang, to keep him from getting too powerful. Order of the Pheonix didnt have enough members.
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Second of all I said friends, like Dumbledore, who you know hates the dark arts, or you all talk to or hang out with on a daily basis, who wouldnt betray you, and I said, family, there are some people with huge families.
[quote="GinnyX"][They thought Wormtail was their best friend. It doesn't get much closer than that,
Families also betrayed each other. Look at the Blacks. Look at the Weasleys, even Percy turned his back on his family.
Im talking about families who had the same views. The Blacks had different views on mudbloods and stuff, so there not a close enough family. And it seemed more like Wormtail wasn't one of his best friends. He seemed more like the tag-along of James group. And like I said, if your going into hiding. You shouldnt tell anyone, except for maybe Dumbledore. And Percy thought his family was trash, he obviously wasn't as close as the rest.
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So if I was in Harry Potter, my plan would have worked, cuz if I was in James shoes, no one except Dumbledore would know where I was. And another thing Im not talking about me hiding out like James did. Im talking about all my close, trusted friends, my Jeesh, staying around the same area. Putting the charm that Hermione used on their camp in the Deathly hallows. Putting an anti-apparate charm. And if the Death Eaters come knocking, theyll find 50 wands shooting Avada Kedavra at them.
[quote="GinnyX"][And when one of those wands turns on you... DUCK!
That was the problem, though.. you couldnt' trust everyone. It's not realistic. Good luck finding five people to trust... but 50? That was what made Voldemort's reign so terrifying, no one knew who they really could trust or not.
Thats why you had to be good at Occlumency. Go through their minds, to see if theyve betrayed you. Snape was good enough, his occlumency skills rivaled Voldemorts. He could have gone through all James friends, to see if they would betray James, if they dont let you, then dont trust them. Thats what I would do, and thats how it would work. And I would use Unbreakable bonds/oaths, or whatever there called. So if the person betrays me, then theyd die. Thats how I would make it work.
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And if you reread my post, I said knock out a Death Eater, which means I would OBVIOUSLY have a piece of him to use for the potion.
[quote="GinnyX"][Umm... like how they stunned Mafalda? You're acting like you'd have done better than them, but so far you aren't coming up with anything new.
No I wasn't coming up with anything new, I was just trying to make you look dumb, since you said I would need a piece of their hair, AFTER I already said Id knock him/her out. You must have skimmed past that part, like youve been doing through all my post.
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And maybe if Hermione and Harry were good actors. Maybe if they scoped out how their victim behaved, before taking his place. They wouldnt have got caught. And the answer to it wearing off. Keep a bunch of flasks of the polyjuice potion. And drink it when it begins to wear off. And on a final note, how are Harry and Hermione the most powerful wizards of their age, since all competent wizards, can do the same spell as them. When it comes to being a good wizard in the Harry Potter World. All you need is good memory, to remember your spells, fast reflexes for using your spells. And to know as many spells as you can. Theres no such thing as a more powerful wizard, just a wizard who knows more spells then you. I admit there are some incompetent wizards who suck at doing spells, but that doesn't mean that a normal wizard is more POWERFUL then them.So no, Harry and Hermione arent the most powerful wizards of their age.
Arabella answered this one for you.
GinnyX wrote:
[Wow... you should have written these books instead of J.K. Rowling. Then there would be no story, no metaphors... no plot.
No im just talking about how it would work in real life, were most everybody, except for, you know, has common sense. Unlike, in her series where everyone feared Voldemort, because of their lack of common sense.
And why are you always getting off topic. Im just trying to get you to give me a straight answer, but all your doing, is bringing the conversation from Osama, to Rasputin, to killing Voldemort, to killing Hitler, to Nero, to me writing books, and other unimportant stuff. It seems like your trying to insult me, when you could spend that time on this topic answering my question.
I give up on you. you don't seem to understand that magic TAKES PRACTICE. you don't understand that not everybody is apparently as willing to blatantly kill as you are. a theme of the books was love...that doesn't jive with AKing people. you don't get it that the death eaters knew more and different and darker magic than the average wizard, making them more powerful in combat. you just won't listen to us. so I for one am done with this stupid thread created by a person who won't listen to reason.
oh and yeah you'd just do occlumency...you think you'd be as good as Snape. well Snape was exceptional. occlumency is tough magic. you think you're so big and powerful and invincible. but you wouldn't do any better than the people in the books. _________________ They say home is where the heart is, so your real home's in your chest. --Captain Hammer
I answered this post already, but apparently it didnt get submited, so im gonna be brief with my replies
[quote="zengrenouille"]
CezeN wrote:
yall are getting offtopic, but yall still haven't actually answered my question, or realized what im saying
I haven't seen any one get off-topic . . .
CezeN wrote:
1. Lolzinja, who says not many people can use Avada Kedavra effectively, I mean, its seems basically like if you know the words and how to enunciate them, you can do it...
[quote="zengrenouille"][GoF, American ed. Page 217 "Avada Kedavra's curse needs a powerful bit of magice behind it."
yes, and the rest of the quote said if the kids did it too Mad Eye he would only get a bloody nose. Thats because I believe a wizards magic isnt at fool potential until they become adults. Thats why Dumbledore could sense the magic of the horocrux in book 6 while Harry could not.
CezeN wrote:
for example, Harry did the crucio curse on Bellatrix that one time, he did it right, but he wasn't doing it to hurt her, so it didnt hurt as much as it should,
[quote="zengrenouille"][OotP, American Ed. Page 810 "Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before He flung himself out from behind the fountan and bellowed Crucio!"
You're telling me he didn't want to hurt her? Think about the parental figure whom you love the most. Now imagine that some one caused the death of your loved one right in front of your eyes. How much would you hate that person? Now multiply that hatred times 100. A parental figure was what Harry wanted the most his entire life. He finally got that, and it was snatched out from underneath of him in a hearbeat. He was pissed. He wanted to hurt Bellatrix. He just wasn't powerful enough to pull the spell off yet. If anger that powerful didn't allow him to pull it off properly, then it's obviously a difficult spell.
If you read the rest of the quote. Bellatrix says, that his Righetous anger wont work the spell, and that he has to MEAN it. The reason the spell didnt work for him, is because he didnt say the spell to hurt her, he said it out of RIGHTEOUS ANGER. He didnt MEAN the spell, so it didnt hurt as much as it should. Not because he wasnt strong enough. He didnt have the right state of mind when he was saying it.
CezeN wrote:
other than that, the only time prior he was shown how to do it, was a year ago in Mad Eyes class, in one lesson, so if after one lesson he can do the curse a year later, I think that shows how easy it is to use unforgiveable curses, no training involved.
[quote="zengrenouille"][OotP, Amercan ed. Pages 810-811 "'Never used an unforgivable curse before, have you, boy?' she yelled. She had abandoned her baby voice now. 'You have to [i[mean[/i] them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long -- I'll show you how it is done, shall I? I'll give you a lesson --'
Apparently Bellatrix thought that using the cruciatus curse involved training. Two paragraphs later, she went on to say:
"'I was and am the Dark Lord's servant, I learned the Dark Arts from him, and I know spells of such power that you, pathetic litte boy can never hope to compete with --'"
If all that there is to perfoming a spell is saying the incantation correctly, then why would Bellatrix have been required to be trained by Voldemort? Also, if Voldemort taught his death eaters dark magic that people who know the unfogivable curses can't compete with, then apparently neither Voldemort, nor his death eaters could have been that easy to kill.
thats not what I gleam from that quote. To me shes just making puns. But then when she talks about how the dark lord trains her, its because he knows a lot of darkmagic spells that everyoneelse doesnt know about. And just because she knows more dark magic, doesnt make her harder to kill. It just gives her a wider variety of ways to kill others. And I said it requires the right wand motions, and proper pronunciations, and last, certain spells need the right STATE OF MIND when your saying them.
CezeN wrote:
ESpecially since he did the curse right,
[quote="zengrenouille"][He said the correct incantation, but he was not yet powerful enough to do the spell right, or else he would have caused unbearable pain. That was sort of the reason that Jo added that bit to the book.
I think J.K. added that part in to show how soft Harry is. thats why he always uses the expelliarmus spell, because it won't hurt people like other spells. And then when he actually does do a spell that supposed to hurt people, it doesnt hurt as much as it usually does. Not because he isnt powerful enough, because he isnt mean enough, and doesnt have the right state of mind for the spell. And a central theme of the novel, is Harry Potters love magic, not suprised when he does spells that he does when hes feeling the opposite of love, they dont hurt as much.
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but as the author has showed harry is much too nice, always using expelliarmus, for the curse to hurt as much as it would normally. So yes, ANY wizard, any grown wizard, could have killed Voldemort before the first book.
[quote="zengrenouille"][Not just any wizard can perform the unforgivable curses. I don't you are understanding the fact that, even at fifteen, Harry was more powerful than a vast majority of adult wizards. There are adult wizards who cannot even perform a patronus charm. The fact that Harry could not properly execute a cruciatus curse properly is a testament to the level of difficulty that it takes to perform the curse.
No like my above post, its a testament to how soft Harry is. Thats why the deatheaters identified him at the beggining of the last book, always using expelliarmus. And as ive said before no wizard is more powerful than another. Wizards are only better than others. The only wizards more powerful than others are adults, more powerful then kids, because there magic hasnt fully developed. Being a good wizard depends on Memory, Practice, Reflexes, Knowledge of alot of spells, being Competent enough to do spells right, and on some spells knowing the right state of mind for them to work. The reason some adults cant perform the Patronus is probably because, they dont have happy enough thoughts to power it. Not because there not powerful enough. Harry isnt powerful, hes just more skilled then other wizards.
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2. Ginny X, Im not talking about why they didnt just kill him, Im talking about why they exaggerated how invincible he was and why they were all so scared of him,
[quote="zengrenouille"][They were scared of him, because he practically was invincible. I mean, no one knew about the horcruxes, but Voldemorts was very powerful. He had friends in high places, and those friends worshipped him. That's very dangerous. He also only had sneak attacks. People never knew when he was coming with his group of followers to terrorize them.
Voldemort was not invincible, and he was not powerful. He just knew a lot of dark magic, has good reflexes, and was very skilled in the other stuff that make you a good wizard. And I had more to say, the first time I replied this post, but for some odd reason its not on this thread.
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The only reason that Voldemort and his Death Eaters rose to power, is because everyone feared them,
[quote="zengrenouille"][Wrong. The only reason that Voldemort rose to power is because he was very powerful and sneaky. People did not fear him before he rose to power. They liked him. That was how he wsa able to trick so many people and get his hands on powerful objects and information about powerful magic. Once he had that, he was unstoppable. Go back and read the memories in the pernsieve in HBP.
You have a point there. Being sneaky started his rise to power, but once everyone knew him as the Dark Lord, it was fear that kept him rising, then kept him in his seat of power. Fear that as I keep saying, they didnt need cuz they could all still kill him.
CezeN wrote:
but my point is that they shouldn't fear him, because any grown wizard has the potential, to kill Voldemort, or any of his Death Eaters,
[quote="zengrenouille"]
CezeN wrote:
aren't that powerful. HAving a wand isn't equal to having a gun if you haven't been trained to use it as a weapon. Wizards aren't taught how to perform dark magic, and their DADA training is very limited. They can only be shown so many defenses at Hogwarts, and Voldemort knew magic that most people never even heard of. There are many reasons to fear Voldemort.
First of all you only know that wizards arent taught to perform dark magic at Hogwarts. There are other wizards schools. At least one openly admits to teaching dark magic. And wands are equal to guns, becuase there can be a one shot one kill. And just because Voldemort has a variety of ways of killing people cuz of his knowledge of dark magic, doesnt make him harder to kill, unless the spell specifically helps his movements, like flying.
[quote="CezeN"]
so if his Death Eaters comes terrorizing your family, you just move in with another family or 3 and if they come a knocking, you just Avada Kedavra them, if you group up with enough people you won't be outnumbered, so you should be able to win. Probably why Voldemort wanted to be immortal in the first place, cuz he probably knew that any half-way competent adult wizard with a wand, could possibly get lucky and kill him.
[quote="zengrenouille"]
CezeN wrote:
d is not equal to a deadly weapon without the proper training. Also, Voldemort catches people off-guard, and usually those people don't have their wands in hand when he sneaks into their households. If Voldemort comes to terrorize your household, the chances are that you are not going to get out of there alive. Voldemort shows up with many other people, and they don't just let people live out of the goodness of their hearts. They would rather use random victims as target practice. As far as living with multiple families, that seems like more of a danger. It makes multiple targets into one target. That way when Voldemort finds one family, he finds the whole slew of them and can just off more people at that time.
And out of all those people he can off, one will get lucky, depending on how big the family is, and hit him with the Avada Kedavra, which I already believe is a spell most people know. And I said more my first time around but I forgot.
[quote="CezeN"]
Now, I will state my question that yall haven't been answering, King818 has the right idea, Fear is a very powerful weapon that Voldemort utilized, why did everyone fear Voldemort and his Death Eaters, when all the grown wizards are just as dangerous as him?
zengrenouille wrote:
[Like I said before, all adults wizards are not equal in power, knowledge, and ability. Voldemort was extremely powerful, talented, intelligent, and heartless. This is a horribley deadly combination, and something that any one should fear.
Like I said before, all adult wizards are equal in power. And even if they dont know Avada Kedavra already, which I doubt. When you hear about the Death Eaters terrorizing families and killing people, people in real life, people with common sense would learn it. And thats the only spell you need to know to defeat him.
[quote="CezeN]
Why did everyone let themselves get pushed around by his Death Eaters(and him) when there all as dangerous/deadly as them, and all they had to do was gang up with their other friends, and if they had a big group, they have the advantage over the Death Eaters............................
zengrenouille wrote:
[They had not choice. The death eaters were careful to catch then when they were most vulnerable.
I think the wizard world is big enough, that after one group of people is caught off guard and killed by Voldemort, theres another smart enough to catch the death Eaters themselves when there most vunerable. And there was more I said in my first reply to this.
Heres what you need to know, Harry is not Powerful just better than other wizards. Some spells depend on the right state of mind to power it, thats why Harry can do a patronus, while some grown wizards cant. And Harry cant make a crucio hurt to the most of its capabilities, while other wizards could. No wizard is more powerful then another.
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