One or both of these may have been previously discussed, so bear with me here:
1. In "The Wandmaker", Bill explains that he is Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. This would mean that only he can speak the name of the place to outsiders. So how could Ron say it when he explained to Harry and Hermione where he went while he was gone? It is possible that Shell Cottage was not under FC protection at this point in the book (when they were visiting Xeno Lovegood), but Ron spoke the name again when he sent Dobby to Shell Cottage from the cellar of Malfoy Manor. And I believe by that time it definitely WAS protected by the FC. So how could Dobby find the place then?
2. At the beginning of "Gringotts," Hermione is uncomfortable with Bellatrix's wand. From page 419:
'It'll probably help you get in character, though,' said Ron. 'Think what that wand's done!'
'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? This is the wand that killed Sirius!'
She tortured the Longbottoms shortly before her imprisonment, so am I to believe that her wand was never taken from her during all the time she spent locked up? Why would they allow their prisoners to remain armed? Or, if it had been taken from her, how did she get it back?
One or both of these may have been previously discussed, so bear with me here:
1. In "The Wandmaker", Bill explains that he is Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. This would mean that only he can speak the name of the place to outsiders. So how could Ron say it when he explained to Harry and Hermione where he went while he was gone? It is possible that Shell Cottage was not under FC protection at this point in the book (when they were visiting Xeno Lovegood), but Ron spoke the name again when he sent Dobby to Shell Cottage from the cellar of Malfoy Manor. And I believe by that time it definitely WAS protected by the FC. So how could Dobby find the place then?
2. At the beginning of "Gringotts," Hermione is uncomfortable with Bellatrix's wand. From page 419:
'It'll probably help you get in character, though,' said Ron. 'Think what that wand's done!'
'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? This is the wand that killed Sirius!'
She tortured the Longbottoms shortly before her imprisonment, so am I to believe that her wand was never taken from her during all the time she spent locked up? Why would they allow their prisoners to remain armed? Or, if it had been taken from her, how did she get it back?
1. It was probably the same thing as with Grimmauld Place. Once someone was told of the existence of the place, they could tell other people and make them immune to the Fidelus Charm. Additionally, house-elves are invulnerable to stuff like that, remember? Such as why they're able to Apparate and Disapparate inside of Hogwarts.
2. I don't really have a definitive answer, but I assume they probably just took the wands of Azkaban prisoners and locked them away in a safe place. When Voldemort broke them out though, he probably got the wands back for them upon bringing the dementors over to their cause.
1. It was probably the same thing as with Grimmauld Place. Once someone was told of the existence of the place, they could tell other people and make them immune to the Fidelus Charm. Additionally, house-elves are invulnerable to stuff like that, remember? Such as why they're able to Apparate and Disapparate inside of Hogwarts.
That isn't how the FC works, though. The only person who can speak the name of the place is the Secret Keeper, which Ron was not. If the Secret Keeper dies, then everyone who was in on the secret may speak the name, diluting the FC, as is what happened with Grimmauld Place after DD's death. But Bill was definitely not dead, so Ron should not have been able to say "Shell Cottage" in the cellar of Malfoy Manor. I was always under the impression that if you tried to say the name the FC would tie up your tongue or something along those lines.
1. It was probably the same thing as with Grimmauld Place. Once someone was told of the existence of the place, they could tell other people and make them immune to the Fidelus Charm. Additionally, house-elves are invulnerable to stuff like that, remember? Such as why they're able to Apparate and Disapparate inside of Hogwarts.
That isn't how the FC works, though. The only person who can speak the name of the place is the Secret Keeper, which Ron was not. If the Secret Keeper dies, then everyone who was in on the secret may speak the name, diluting the FC, as is what happened with Grimmauld Place after DD's death. But Bill was definitely not dead, so Ron should not have been able to say "Shell Cottage" in the cellar of Malfoy Manor. I was always under the impression that if you tried to say the name the FC would tie up your tongue or something along those lines.
You're right, I forgot that was only because DD died. I don't really have an idea then. Maybe there's a way to make it so the Fidelus Charms automatically takes the effect it took after DD died, so everyone who knows of it acts as a Secret Keeper.
One or both of these may have been previously discussed, so bear with me here:
1. In "The Wandmaker", Bill explains that he is Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. This would mean that only he can speak the name of the place to outsiders. So how could Ron say it when he explained to Harry and Hermione where he went while he was gone? It is possible that Shell Cottage was not under FC protection at this point in the book (when they were visiting Xeno Lovegood), but Ron spoke the name again when he sent Dobby to Shell Cottage from the cellar of Malfoy Manor. And I believe by that time it definitely WAS protected by the FC. So how could Dobby find the place then?
The way I understood it, the charm was done right after they arrived, to keep them safe. Therefore, they were in the boundaries of Shell Cottage when the charm was cast and automatically knew the secret (just like Yaxley was given the secret when Hermione took him to Grimmauld Place).
habs4life9 wrote:
2. At the beginning of "Gringotts," Hermione is uncomfortable with Bellatrix's wand. From page 419:
'It'll probably help you get in character, though,' said Ron. 'Think what that wand's done!'
'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? This is the wand that killed Sirius!'
She tortured the Longbottoms shortly before her imprisonment, so am I to believe that her wand was never taken from her during all the time she spent locked up? Why would they allow their prisoners to remain armed? Or, if it had been taken from her, how did she get it back?
The same question could be asked about all the other Death Eaters as well, I doubt they just walked into Ollivanders and bought wands... (remember, they broke out before Ollivander was kidnapped). And Sirius also had a wand.
I suppose I agree with Fierce, must be something like that. I can imagine Padfoot paddling his way across the sea with his wand between his teeth _________________ "The best of us must sometimes eat our words." -- Albus Dumbledore
1. In "The Wandmaker", Bill explains that he is Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. This would mean that only he can speak the name of the place to outsiders. So how could Ron say it when he explained to Harry and Hermione where he went while he was gone? It is possible that Shell Cottage was not under FC protection at this point in the book (when they were visiting Xeno Lovegood), but Ron spoke the name again when he sent Dobby to Shell Cottage from the cellar of Malfoy Manor. And I believe by that time it definitely WAS protected by the FC. So how could Dobby find the place then?
They apparated outside of the limits of the spell. Ron didn't give the exact location, only the whereabouts.
JKR has said that elves have different magic.
[qouote]2. At the beginning of "Gringotts," Hermione is uncomfortable with Bellatrix's wand. From page 419:
'It'll probably help you get in character, though,' said Ron. 'Think what that wand's done!'
'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? This is the wand that killed Sirius!'
She tortured the Longbottoms shortly before her imprisonment, so am I to believe that her wand was never taken from her during all the time she spent locked up? Why would they allow their prisoners to remain armed? Or, if it had been taken from her, how did she get it back?[/quote]
I just assumed she got it back the same way she got out... through Voldemort, or one of his other followers. He had many followers still working at the ministry that managed to avade imprisonment, including Lucius. Or they could have easily given the wand to Narcissa to have or something. The prisoners that were broken out of Azkaban all have wands.... it's not surprising that they obtained their old wands back somehow. It's just a matter of how, not if. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate. ~ Bob Dylan
1. In "The Wandmaker", Bill explains that he is Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. This would mean that only he can speak the name of the place to outsiders. So how could Ron say it when he explained to Harry and Hermione where he went while he was gone? It is possible that Shell Cottage was not under FC protection at this point in the book (when they were visiting Xeno Lovegood), but Ron spoke the name again when he sent Dobby to Shell Cottage from the cellar of Malfoy Manor. And I believe by that time it definitely WAS protected by the FC. So how could Dobby find the place then?
They apparated outside of the limits of the spell. Ron didn't give the exact location, only the whereabouts.
JKR has said that elves have different magic.
Don't think thats right. Firstly, Ron told them it's Shell Cottage, isn't that the name of the actual house? I don't think that means the whereabouts... Second, Dobby didn't apparate them, Harry did ("Harry seized Dobby's hand and spun on the spot to Disapparate"), and Harry could see the cottage from a distance when he arrived so it couldn't have been under the charm yet.
As I said before, I think Bill did the charm after they arrived (probably while Harry was burying Dobby, it probably took a while to dig the grave by hand). During that time the charm was also cast on Muriel's place, to where the Weasleys had moved. _________________ "The best of us must sometimes eat our words." -- Albus Dumbledore
'Right. Dobby, I want you to grab Luna, Dean and Mr Ollivander, and take them - take them to -'
'Bill and Fleur's,' said Ron. 'Shell Cottage on the outskirts of Tinworth!'
In the scene in the cellar, it is Dobby who Disapparates with Luna, Dean and Ollivander. But later on upstairs in the living room, it clearly says HARRY turns on the spot to Disapparate and takes Dobby, Griphook, Ron and Hermione with him. So I think kwidditch is right, the FC could not have possibly been cast at the time of the cellar scene if Ron spoke the words "Shell Cottage." So maybe they did do it shortly after everyone arrived. It just seems like serious time constraints to me.
'Right. Dobby, I want you to grab Luna, Dean and Mr Ollivander, and take them - take them to -'
'Bill and Fleur's,' said Ron. 'Shell Cottage on the outskirts of Tinworth!'
In the scene in the cellar, it is Dobby who Disapparates with Luna, Dean and Ollivander. But later on upstairs in the living room, it clearly says HARRY turns on the spot to Disapparate and takes Dobby, Griphook, Ron and Hermione with him. So I think kwidditch is right, the FC could not have possibly been cast at the time of the cellar scene if Ron spoke the words "Shell Cottage." So maybe they did do it shortly after everyone arrived. It just seems like serious time constraints to me.
Right, all he did was tell them what the house was called and it's general area. He said the name of the house and the name of the town. Not even a street location or anything. Harry might have already known it was called Shell Cottage. Afterall, Ron had already been there, so there is a chance Bill had already told Ron and Harry the location or something. Or perhaps, yeah the Fidelus Charm hadn't been cast yet. Either way, there are perfectly rational explanations. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate. ~ Bob Dylan
'Right. Dobby, I want you to grab Luna, Dean and Mr Ollivander, and take them - take them to -'
'Bill and Fleur's,' said Ron. 'Shell Cottage on the outskirts of Tinworth!'
In the scene in the cellar, it is Dobby who Disapparates with Luna, Dean and Ollivander. But later on upstairs in the living room, it clearly says HARRY turns on the spot to Disapparate and takes Dobby, Griphook, Ron and Hermione with him. So I think kwidditch is right, the FC could not have possibly been cast at the time of the cellar scene if Ron spoke the words "Shell Cottage." So maybe they did do it shortly after everyone arrived. It just seems like serious time constraints to me.
Right, all he did was tell them what the house was called and it's general area. He said the name of the house and the name of the town. Not even a street location or anything. Harry might have already known it was called Shell Cottage. Afterall, Ron had already been there, so there is a chance Bill had already told Ron and Harry the location or something. Or perhaps, yeah the Fidelus Charm hadn't been cast yet. Either way, there are perfectly rational explanations.
Ginny is right, Ron only gave the general whereabouts of the house, and the fact that it's called Shell Cottage means nothing if that wasn't used in the Fidelius charm. Maybe when the fidelius charm was cast, they phrased it as "The house of Bill and Fleur . . ." and added exact address. _________________
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It just seems like serious time constraints to me.
Why? If Bill had time to move all the Weasleys to Muriel's, why wouldn't he have time to cast the charm? _________________ "The best of us must sometimes eat our words." -- Albus Dumbledore
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