lol I don't think the big kahuna controls and orchestrates everything. but that doesn't mean he doesn't care. free will and what not. if we had to do everything we did, and we obeyed...what kind of satisfaction could he get out of that? none. I don't like the idea though of a vengeful God who punishes us for not obeying when he gives us the choice not to. I do like the idea that he'd send down his son to set a good example for us, and even sacrifice himself for us. though that would go with the idea that he got it wrong in the old testament and came to realize it and fixed it in the new. there's a lot to think about
lol, I always hated the idea that a god could lead people in the wrong direction for so long. You can only imagine my anger at the right-wing conservatives who touted this god as the way and yet called John Kerry a flip-flopper for chaning his opinions over years of times. If their god could take centuries to change his mind about the lives of millions, then surely John Kerry could let life experience affect his way of thinking. I had a "God is a flip-flopper" campaign. Sorry, I didn't mean to get into politics, but it really does pertain to religion.
Back of topic, I'm agnostic, so I don't completely disregard the poetry of having a higher power. I just can't bring myself to believe that this higher power is anything like man. If anything, it's an energy force. It's not something that thinks, because that would requite a physical brain. Really, in my mind any existing higher power would exist on a level that no human could compregend in today's world. Maybe in the future with more understanding of the world it could be possible. Of course, if there is no higher power, then we're trying to understand something that is impossible to understand. _________________
lmao god is a flip flopper. thats funny. I've never understood how people could say god is perfect if he had to change the way he went about everything lol. I also never understood why we should fear god if he was as loving as they always said. the old and new testaments are really...not compatible in my mind, unless he flip flopped. though you say centuries...to god it could have seemed no time at all. but still all those people who went to hell first...well there is the notion of the harrowing of hell where jesus went down and busted them all out...well the ones that should have been. _________________
lmao god is a flip flopper. thats funny. I've never understood how people could say god is perfect if he had to change the way he went about everything lol. I also never understood why we should fear god if he was as loving as they always said. the old and new testaments are really...not compatible in my mind, unless he flip flopped. though you say centuries...to god it could have seemed no time at all. but still all those people who went to hell first...well there is the notion of the harrowing of hell where jesus went down and busted them all out...well the ones that should have been.
Whether is seems like a nanosecond to this god or not doesn't change the fact that it equalled many many lifetimes of sadness for people.
Surely if that is forgivable, then a man changing his mind about a bill over a period of merely years is forgivable.
When I was a child, I couldn't put the unfairness of every one going to hell out of my mind. It was a horrible thought. It's just another flaw the this tale as far as I'm concerned now. _________________
as a child I seem to have amended things in my head...like only really bad people go to Hell. it was only as I got older I began seeing how many people would go to hell according to how some people read it. so I keep that amendment in my current...conceptualization. of course with the grain of sal that maybe there is no hell. _________________
as a child I seem to have amended things in my head...like only really bad people go to Hell. it was only as I got older I began seeing how many people would go to hell according to how some people read it. so I keep that amendment in my current...conceptualization. of course with the grain of sal that maybe there is no hell.
lol, the amount of people that I thought for sure would be going to hell when I was a child frightened me! It almost made me wish that I would go there, too. I didn't want to be seperated from the people that I loved! _________________
when poeple don't believe in god (not don't get all "ruffled" people) what do they think will happen to them when they die?
Remember what your life was like before you were born? Didn't think so. That'll be what you experience after death - a big heap of nothing. The thing is, you won't be there to contemplate your non-existence, so it's really neither good nor bad.
pottergirl66 wrote:
and why can't god have created space then let nature take it over.
Occam's razor - eliminate any unnecessary assumptions.
before
1. God exists
2. God created the Universe
3. The Universe exists
4. Nature took over
after
1. The Universe exists
2. Nature took over
The latter is more probable, because the latter has to be true in order for the former to be true.
pottergirl66 wrote:
i mean how do you people (that don't believe in god) think that space was created. something (or someone) had to create it
I don't beileve space was created, I believe space probably existed eternally. The conservation of mass and energy laws kind of help me out there. I think a much harder question is how god was created, seeing as god defies the laws of physics and the Universe doesn't.
Arabella wrote:
lol I don't think the big kahuna controls and orchestrates everything. but that doesn't mean he doesn't care. free will and what not. if we had to do everything we did, and we obeyed...what kind of satisfaction could he get out of that? none. I don't like the idea though of a vengeful God who punishes us for not obeying when he gives us the choice not to. I do like the idea that he'd send down his son to set a good example for us, and even sacrifice himself for us. though that would go with the idea that he got it wrong in the old testament and came to realize it and fixed it in the new. there's a lot to think about
This is the issue I've always had with moderate christianity. The idea that god created the bible and knew that people would either 'take things out of context' or 'misinterpret' his message and go around commiting genocide for centuries and centuries kind of bugs me. Wouldn't he have re-written it to preserve his message of love and peace if that's what he really meant?
Arabella wrote:
[on the topic of an afterlife]
it just seems less lonely and nicer
I just want to point out that there isn't anything lonely about dying without an afterlife. Sure you're dead, but you're too dead to sit around and think about how dead you are. It's like it was before you were born - sure you didn't exist, but since you didn't exist you weren't there to understand that you didn't exist and how uncool that was. I hope that makes sense. _________________
This is the issue I've always had with moderate christianity. The idea that god created the bible and knew that people would either 'take things out of context' or 'misinterpret' his message and go around commiting genocide for centuries and centuries kind of bugs me. Wouldn't he have re-written it to preserve his message of love and peace if that's what he really meant?
She never said anything about God actually writing the Bible. Arabella knows very well that human beings, men specifically, wrote the Bible. She also never said anything about God knowing people would misinterpret the Bible or take things out of context. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
Maybe he is rewriting the Bible... just that he is not physically holding the pen. He did sort of rewrite that Bible when Jesus christ came and gave new meaning to the ten commandments, and narrated some parables, and taught the people. Then little by little the Church interprets this and that (pfff.. the Church ) _________________
I love my handsome Erik
This is the issue I've always had with moderate christianity. The idea that god created the bible and knew that people would either 'take things out of context' or 'misinterpret' his message and go around commiting genocide for centuries and centuries kind of bugs me. Wouldn't he have re-written it to preserve his message of love and peace if that's what he really meant?
She never said anything about God actually writing the Bible. Arabella knows very well that human beings, men specifically, wrote the Bible. She also never said anything about God knowing people would misinterpret the Bible or take things out of context.
I was just talking about moderate christianity; I've yet to meet a christian that thinks the bible had no divine inspiration, or that god is not omniscient. _________________
I just want to point out that there isn't anything lonely about dying without an afterlife. Sure you're dead, but you're too dead to sit around and think about how dead you are. It's like it was before you were born - sure you didn't exist, but since you didn't exist you weren't there to understand that you didn't exist and how uncool that was. I hope that makes sense.
I meant lonely while you're living, when pondering death. lonely isn't exactly the right word. I'd just rather think there was something afterwards, because its more comforting. and if I'm wrong...I won't be around to care _________________
yeah sure. its comforting to think of an afterlife while u are alive. but if i am dead, i couldnt care less. so ill just believe that there is one, to keep me happy while i am alive. there's no harm in believing that there is one, as long as you dont deprive yourself of fun. i mean, assuming heaven exists and all and only the good people go there... be as good as you can be without depriving yourself of the fun. no need to be saintly. just dont murder, be fair to people, support a cause, dont be a crook, and ull be fine! eat, drink, and be merry. even if you go to purgatory you'll go to heaven eventually. or if there is no heaven then there cant be a purgatory and you'll be all fine decaying under the ground. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
and why can't god have created space then let nature take it over.
Occam's razor - eliminate any unnecessary assumptions.
before
1. God exists
2. God created the Universe
3. The Universe exists
4. Nature took over
after
1. The Universe exists
2. Nature took over
The latter is more probable, because the latter has to be true in order for the former to be true.
pottergirl66 wrote:
i mean how do you people (that don't believe in god) think that space was created. something (or someone) had to create it
I don't beileve space was created, I believe space probably existed eternally. The conservation of mass and energy laws kind of help me out there. I think a much harder question is how god was created, seeing as god defies the laws of physics and the Universe doesn't.
I second this, with the addition:
When you're talking about space, space is a VIOD, with some pieces of rubble flying around. There's little to create about a void, since it is the closest thing we have to nothing at all.
So yeah, it did excist eternally, and always will be. Space is that which remains if all else is gone. It is our final container, there's no thing outside space, because it is infinite, it doesn't have edges or walls, so there can be nothing outside it. Thus, God can never have created this, since he should also be inside this Nothing.
As for the afterlife: I'm truly grateful for just fading away into nothing when I die. I think that is the purest form of rest you can get. Nothing to expect, nothing that can get back on you, no concequences. I think this is also why people commit suicide. They want to get rid of the life they are leading, to be gone. If i would commit suicide(I won't), i wouldn't want to die, then wander around in some 'Heaven' until eternity. I'd go crazy.
All I would like, is to be able to die in peace, knowing other people wouldn't be full of sorrow beacuse of me dying. I think if I die from age, i'll go happily, knowing there's nothing at all after this. _________________ http://chainstory.awardspace.com http://zarlinsart.awardspace.com
When you're talking about space, space is a VIOD, with some pieces of rubble flying around. There's little to create about a void, since it is the closest thing we have to nothing at all.
So yeah, it did excist eternally, and always will be. Space is that which remains if all else is gone. It is our final container, there's no thing outside space, because it is infinite, it doesn't have edges or walls, so there can be nothing outside it. Thus, God can never have created this, since he should also be inside this Nothing.
That's not entirely true; space is more a fabric than a void, and it certainly can't exist if "all else is gone" because it's relative to the matter that surrounds it. To say it has no limit, or that it is merely nothingness isn't completely true though - research Einstein's theory of relativity. _________________
I've always liked the idea that since the material that planets are made out of (and what any life on the planet is made of) came, at one point, from an exploding star, we're all technically made out of star dust.
I'm a scientist, and I believe that the diversity of life comes from speciation via evolution (originally from a single cell in some primordial sea) but I still think there's a higher power. Not for any logical reason, I just tend to think something is out there. I don't even think of it as particularly looking like anything - I just think there's something out there bigger than me. I can't think of a good way to explain it, whenever I try to it sounds like I believe in the Force. (Maybe I could start listing my religion as "Jedi")
As to afterlife, I don't really know what exactly I think, but a great wizard once said that "to the well organized mind, death is just the next great adventure." I'll just stick with that. _________________ I don't have a lot of experience with vampires, but I have hunted werewolves. I shot one once. But by the time I got to it, it had turned back into my neighbor's dog. ~ Dwight Schrute
I've always liked the idea that since the material that planets are made out of (and what any life on the planet is made of) came, at one point, from an exploding star, we're all technically made out of star dust.
That's actually a rather poetic notion . . . I like it. I'm made of stardust. _________________
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I'll just stick with that.
