When Hermione mentions Voldemort's name at Tottenham Court Road, the Death Eaters appear at once. But at Grimmauld place, his name is mentioned several times and is undetected.
When Lupin arrives and is told about the fact that the Death Eaters found them and is asked if its possible that Harry still has the Trace, he answers that if he had the Trace, the Death Eaters would know he was here.
Does anyone else find it odd that the Trace would work in Grimmauld place but not the taboo? Why wouldn't the taboo be made like the Trace and be detected in houses that are unplottable, Secret-Kept etc.? _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
They knew they were there, but couldn't see the house. When Harry comes back with the newspaper, it says how the number of DE's keeping watch increased. The problem was, they couldn't see where the house was. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
Death Eaters keep multiplying outside the house eachday but because they cant see it the stuffed _________________ "And Really Bad Eggs...
Drink Up Me Hearty's Yo Ho!"
They knew they were there, but couldn't see the house. When Harry comes back with the newspaper, it says how the number of DE's keeping watch increased. The problem was, they couldn't see where the house was.
Incorrect. Lupin tells them: "They can't know you're in here or I'm sure they'd have more people out there; they're staking out everywhere that's got any connection with you, Harry."
Later: "We wondered," said Hermione tentatively, "whether Harry could still have the Trace on him?"
"Impossible," said Lupin. Ron looked smug, and Harry felt hugely relieved. "Apart from anything else, they'd know for sure Harry was here if he still had the Trace on him, wouldn't they? But I can't see how they could have tracked you to Tottenham Court Road, that's worrying, really worrying." (Italics added by me.)
So they didn't know he was there for sure, they were just guarding all the places connected to Harry. There were probably Death Eaters in Godric's Hollow, Privet Drive, near the Burrow and other places as well. There were more guards on September first (probably in all the places, not just Grimmauld place) since they were expecting them to leave and go to Hogwarts.
So this bring us back to the original question: why didn't they know he was there, why didn't the taboo give them away? Especially as we see later that the taboo broke all the security enchantments when they were camping. _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
They knew they were there, but couldn't see the house. When Harry comes back with the newspaper, it says how the number of DE's keeping watch increased. The problem was, they couldn't see where the house was.
Incorrect. Lupin tells them: "They can't know you're in here or I'm sure they'd have more people out there; they're staking out everywhere that's got any connection with you, Harry."
Later: "We wondered," said Hermione tentatively, "whether Harry could still have the Trace on him?"
"Impossible," said Lupin. Ron looked smug, and Harry felt hugely relieved. "Apart from anything else, they'd know for sure Harry was here if he still had the Trace on him, wouldn't they? But I can't see how they could have tracked you to Tottenham Court Road, that's worrying, really worrying." (Italics added by me.)
So they didn't know he was there for sure, they were just guarding all the places connected to Harry. There were probably Death Eaters in Godric's Hollow, Privet Drive, near the Burrow and other places as well. There were more guards on September first (probably in all the places, not just Grimmauld place) since they were expecting them to leave and go to Hogwarts.
So this bring us back to the original question: why didn't they know he was there, why didn't the taboo give them away? Especially as we see later that the taboo broke all the security enchantments when they were camping.
Why do you keep quoting that thing about the trace? We've already established Harry does not have the trace on him. It's completely irrelevant to your question. Lupin didn't know the word was tabooed, he himself uses it. Ron finds out later on while he's at Shell Cottage. Are you asking about the trace or the taboo?
They did know he was there, that was why the number of DE's kept increasing the more they said the word. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
"They can't know you're in here or I'm sure they'd have more people out there; they're staking out everywhere that's got any connection with you, Harry."
If they knew he was there, they would have much more people out there. Again, the number of DE's didn't keep increasing each time he said the name, only on one specific day were there more - September first. _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
i was wondering about this myself, and it seems to be a mistake on JKR's part (which are few and far between). like Ron said when he returned, it breaks security enchantments saying the word, maybe the fidelius charm is different to your standard secuirty enchantments but im sure voldy would have thought about the fidelius charm and with the whole ministry on his side he should have been able to break it. _________________ Member #3 of the "David Yates has no direction for the Potter films and should therefore be stoned" club!
"They can't know you're in here or I'm sure they'd have more people out there; they're staking out everywhere that's got any connection with you, Harry."
If they knew he was there, they would have much more people out there. Again, the number of DE's didn't keep increasing each time he said the name, only on one specific day were there more - September first.
The fact that the numbers increase though after they say the name is crucial. They thought he might be there, but they knew something was going on because of the taboo.
DH ch 12; pg187 (UK edition)
'There are still a load of Death Eaters watching the house,' he told Ron as he ate, 'more than usual. It's like they're hoping we'll march out carrying our school trunks and head off for the Hogwarts Express.'
That was a red herring mixed with foreshadwowing.
The DE's didn't always come off as the brightest people... but there is no way they would think Harry would turn up for school, especially with Snape as the new Headmaster. Ron was supposed to be home critically ill and Hermione hadn't shown up for muggle-testing, so they knew she was on the run. There is no way they expected them to go to school.
JKR led us to just think it was nothing, when actually it was foreshadowing of the taboo. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
Barely a day passed without one or two people arriving in Grimmauld Place with no other purpose, or so it seemed, than to lean against the railing facing numbers eleven and thirteen, watching the join between the two houses. The lurkers were never the same two days running, although they all seemed to share a dislike for normal clothing. Most of the Londoners who passed them were used to eccentric dressers and took little notice, though occasionally one of them might glance back, wondering why anyone would wear such long cloaks in the heat.
The watchers seemed to be gleaning little satisfaction from their vigil. Occasionally one of them started forward excitedly, as if they had seen something interesting at last, only to fall back looking disappointed.
On the first day of September there were more people lurking in the square than ever before. Half a dozen men in long cloaks stood silent and watchful, gazing as ever at houses eleven and thirteen, but the thing for which they were waiting still appeared elusive.
The numbers didn't increase after they said the name. They had been there for four weeks, and had mentioned Voldemort several times on their second day there. Why then, did the DE's number increase only four weeks later, on September first? And even then, there were only six (instead of the usual one or two). The next day, there were only two again ("They could see a couple of puffy-eyed Death Eaters watching the house from across the misty square.")
Indeed, as you say, the DE's aren't bright. They were figuring he'd come to Hogwarts. Maybe they thought he'd want to go kill Snape or something (after all, that morning the Daily Prophet reported Snape's appointment as headmaster). _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
Barely a day passed without one or two people arriving in Grimmauld Place with no other purpose, or so it seemed, than to lean against the railing facing numbers eleven and thirteen, watching the join between the two houses. The lurkers were never the same two days running, although they all seemed to share a dislike for normal clothing. Most of the Londoners who passed them were used to eccentric dressers and took little notice, though occasionally one of them might glance back, wondering why anyone would wear such long cloaks in the heat.
The watchers seemed to be gleaning little satisfaction from their vigil. Occasionally one of them started forward excitedly, as if they had seen something interesting at last, only to fall back looking disappointed.
On the first day of September there were more people lurking in the square than ever before. Half a dozen men in long cloaks stood silent and watchful, gazing as ever at houses eleven and thirteen, but the thing for which they were waiting still appeared elusive.
The numbers didn't increase after they said the name. They had been there for four weeks, and had mentioned Voldemort several times on their second day there. Why then, did the DE's number increase only four weeks later, on September first? And even then, there were only six (instead of the usual one or two). The next day, there were only two again ("They could see a couple of puffy-eyed Death Eaters watching the house from across the misty square.")
Indeed, as you say, the DE's aren't bright. They were figuring he'd come to Hogwarts. Maybe they thought he'd want to go kill Snape or something (after all, that morning the Daily Prophet reported Snape's appointment as headmaster).
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. The amount of Death Eaters had been increasing over the days. The fact that it was September first was used because A, it was a red herring, and B, it served as a reminder to them that there were students in danger of Snape. It prompted Harry to decide that day they should go to the Ministry
The DE didn't even know Ron and Hermione were in there. They only thought Harry was in there. And they knew there was no way Harry was going to go to school after being in hiding since July, especially since the Ministry was after to him to be arrested for the murder of DD. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. The amount of Death Eaters had been increasing over the days. The fact that it was September first was used because A, it was a red herring, and B, it served as a reminder to them that there were students in danger of Snape. It prompted Harry to decide that day they should go to the Ministry
The DE didn't even know Ron and Hermione were in there. They only thought Harry was in there. And they knew there was no way Harry was going to go to school after being in hiding since July, especially since the Ministry was after to him to be arrested for the murder of DD.
It's clear from the text that the only time there were more than one or two DE's was on September first, and even the next day there were only two again. Nowhere does the book state that the number of DE's was increasing every day. For four weeks there had been 1-2 every day, on September 1st there were 6, on September 2nd there were 2 again.
If they knew for sure that Harry was there, they would have more DE's there and they wouldn't bother guarding the other places that were connected to Harry. _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. The amount of Death Eaters had been increasing over the days. The fact that it was September first was used because A, it was a red herring, and B, it served as a reminder to them that there were students in danger of Snape. It prompted Harry to decide that day they should go to the Ministry
The DE didn't even know Ron and Hermione were in there. They only thought Harry was in there. And they knew there was no way Harry was going to go to school after being in hiding since July, especially since the Ministry was after to him to be arrested for the murder of DD.
It's clear from the text that the only time there were more than one or two DE's was on September first, and even the next day there were only two again. Nowhere does the book state that the number of DE's was increasing every day. For four weeks there had been 1-2 every day, on September 1st there were 6, on September 2nd there were 2 again.
If they knew for sure that Harry was there, they would have more DE's there and they wouldn't bother guarding the other places that were connected to Harry.
They couldn't be positive Harry was there, they only knew someone was there that said Voldemort.
Harry tells Ron that his cloak slipped a bit as he naded on the top step. Ron says no to worry about it, it happens to him, too. The DE's were just getting more and more anxious.
When they left the next morning it was early. it says there were a "couple" of puffy eyed E's waiting. I'm assuming that keeping watch at that time of the day wasn't as imperative to them as sleep was. They probably figured if there was someone in the house, they'd probably still be sleeping, anyway, since we know the the trio woke at dawn and arrived in the alleyway before most Ministry officials did. _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
Is it indicated anywhere at all that there were more and more DE's throughout the four weeks? If half a dozen is considered "more people than ever before", it doesn't seem likely that there were ever more than one or two.
True, they didn't know for sure Harry was there, as I've been saying all along. The question is if they knew someone had said 'Voldemort'. It doesn't seem likely that they did, because it would be simple to put two and two together and figure out that Harry is there (as it's his house), and then there would be more people guarding it. Even six DE's is nothing, it's obvious that they were only there as a precaution. _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
They didn't know it was Harry, so it was just a precaution, agreed. But I don't think they increased the number just becaues it was the first day of school. All they knew was that someone in that area said Voldemort, and they probably did know that the Black House was there somewhere. But they didn't know who said it. So why would they be waiting for Harry to go to school when they knew he wouldn't be going to school and they weren't even sure it was him? _________________ Breathing is optional. Look, Bella, look.
I agree that the Death Eaters were there because they knew someone had said the name but they couldn't see Grimmauld Place because of the Fidelius Charm.
Later on, Ron said that the Taboo breaks all enchantments and thats why their enchantments around the tent were broken, so either the Fidelius Charm is no normal enchantment (duh) or the taboo's effect on enchantments wasn't added to the overall taboo, until after the Death Eaters encounter with Grimmauld Place.
I think both are just as likely as the other. Problem solved? _________________ It's Not Over!
When Voldemort's name was mentioned in Tottenham Court Road and in the forest, the DE's were there immediately. But at Grimmauld place it took two days for them to arrive (that's what I understand from the book, although I suppose it could be argued that they were just noticed or mentioned two days later, but somehow it doesn't look that way).
As for the question why they were waiting for Harry to go to school - I already supplied my answer before: Most of the DE's (especially those sent on these type of missions) are quite dim-witted; its possible that they were actually expecting him to go to school (whether to try and attack Snape or for whatever reason). In fact, they weren't the only ones suspecting it: Neville Longbottom for one, was sure Harry would eventually come to Hogwarts (and he was right, wasn't he?) Surely there was an increase in DE's near all the places where Harry was suspected to be.
In short, I think the taboo was indeed ineffective in Grimmauld place, probably due to the Fidelius charm. The Trace was an old Ministry thing, so it had already been set up to work even at a location guarded by the Fidelius, but perhaps (similar to what Auror Monroe said) the extra effect for the taboo was added after they left Grimmauld place. _________________ "I can make things move without touching them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me." -- Tom Riddle (HBP movie).
Yeah, I noticed it too. _________________ Huge Harry/Ginny fan!
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Lupin didn't know the word was tabooed, he himself uses it. Ron finds out later on while he's at Shell Cottage. Are you asking about the trace or the taboo?
