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Time Turner?
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pottergirl66
Kimmy
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PostPosted: April 18, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Time Turner? Reply with quote
ok in POA, harry is saved by himself, then harry saves himself. what
happens to the harry that harry saved. wouldn't the cycle of being
saved - then saving just continue and continue. that always has confused
me Confused
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GinnyX
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I understand it, but I can't exclain it because it makes my brain hurt. It is like a cycle, but it is a cycle that continues. And since the Harry that saves the firt harry is the same harry, the cycle sort-of ends for one of them....

I can't explain it well at all. Sad
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vandermorph
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well here we go i will TRY to explain it. i have thought of this also. The Harry that was mistaken for JAMES, saves Harry on the other side of the lake with a patronus. As he is the LATER Harry, he continues on in life. Now the one that was saved is the hard one to explain. My theory is that once he reaches the stage of his life where he saves himself he just fades from exsistence, allowing the Older harry to continue his life unnafected. OR the other Harry is still out there similar to the end of Austin Powers two... but that is not likely.
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GinnyX
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The problem I have explaining this, is that no matter how I try to explain it, someone yells at me that there is only one Harry. Der. But how else do I explain it without using two different Harrys? (Harries? Very Happy )
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vandermorph
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
GinnyX wrote:
The problem I have explaining this, is that no matter how I try to explain it, someone yells at me that there is only one Harry. Der. But how else do I explain it without using two different Harrys? (Harries? Very Happy )


Say Harry James leave out the slash because James is Harrys middle name.
*Yells* There is only ONE HARRY!!!
*Whispers* But there is two timeframes *Winks*

Its my favorite HP book lol
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Ginevra Malenki
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's definitly something that you kind of half to get yourself, it's a hard thing to explain when you get to the Harry who gets saved saving himself on the other side of the lake. Laughing
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bery26
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
what i really wanna know about the time turner thingy is the following:

the trio never saw buckbeak dying right? because in that case it would be wrong, cause buckbeak never died, harry and hermy saved him
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Ginevra Malenki
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bery26 wrote:
what i really wanna know about the time turner thingy is the following:

the trio never saw buckbeak dying right? because in that case it would be wrong, cause buckbeak never died, harry and hermy saved him


Well they would have seen him die but he didn't really die, I guess. They changed 'history' by saving buckbeak and that one move is the reason Sirius lived longer.
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zengrenouille
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ginevra Malenki wrote:
bery26 wrote:
what i really wanna know about the time turner thingy is the following:

the trio never saw buckbeak dying right? because in that case it would be wrong, cause buckbeak never died, harry and hermy saved him


Well they would have seen him die but he didn't really die, I guess. They changed 'history' by saving buckbeak and that one move is the reason Sirius lived longer.


They didn't actually change history, though, because time happens in a straight line. What happend that first time that Harry experienced it happened exactly the same way the second time that he experienced it.
Buckbeak was not killed the first time around. Harry, Hermione, and Ron just thought that he died since they didn't see what really happened.

The old and new Harry and Hermione neither continue nor cease to exist. They are just physical beings sort of stuck in time. As Ginny said, it's very hard to explain suchan abstract idea as time in the sense that it needs to be explained here.
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Ginevra Malenki
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They changed time, a little, because if they hadn't gone back Sirius wouldn't have lived and that would have changed everything.
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vandermorph
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ginevra Malenki wrote:
They changed time, a little, because if they hadn't gone back Sirius wouldn't have lived and that would have changed everything.


Not really, when they went down to Hagrids Hut for the first time, thier future selves were already at work, saving Buckbeak and Sirius, they just had to wait for the right moments in time.

As for they never saw Buckbeak die... it was because he was NEVER executed. Thier future selves had already saved Buckbeak and when they heard the THUD it was the Executioner swinging his Axe into the post. And Hagrid was crying for joy, not sadness.

This is hard to explain but i think i uderstand it. It trying to make OTHER people understand that is the hard part.
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Ginevra Malenki
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
But the future selves wouldn't have even been there if they hadn't used the time-turner. This is why the time-tuner is so friggin' confusing to explain its complicated.
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vandermorph
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
But if what you are saying is right... then everytime Fred and George looked at the map in PoA they would have seen alot of Hermiones... so what you are saying isnt feasible really... I just dont think the map registers people from other time frames.
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Ginevra Malenki
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The map would have never shown two of them Confused
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zengrenouille
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vandermorph wrote:
But if what you are saying is right... then everytime Fred and George looked at the map in PoA they would have seen alot of Hermiones... so what you are saying isnt feasible really... I just dont think the map registers people from other time frames.


Think about it this way. If the future Harry wasn't there the first time around when the demeantors came after Harry and Sirius, then Harry would never have made it to the future to begin with. It was Harry who sent the patronus to save them.
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bery26
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PostPosted: April 19, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
They didn't actually change history, though, because time happens in a straight line. What happend that first time that Harry experienced it happened exactly the same way the second time that he experienced it.
Buckbeak was not killed the first time around. Harry, Hermione, and Ron just thought that he died since they didn't see what really happened.


thats exactly what i thought cause in the books they never actually see it, scabbers escapes from ron's hands at that moment so they are distracted

so this just shows yet another movie mistake lol
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kwidditch
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PostPosted: April 21, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The first Harry disappears when he travels to the past and becomes the second Harry.
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PostPosted: April 21, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok about the cycle thing:
harry is saved, then he goes back in time and saves himself. after that time just goes on. yes it is like a continuous cycle but it doesn't keep happening because it only really happened once. if you think about the way time works what happened in the past is in the past. so harry only saved himself once, but the way it happens is sort of like a cycle.

Quote:
so this just shows yet another movie mistake lol


it wasn't a movie mistake. in the movie when you see the exicutioner kill buckbeak he's not actually killing him. the future harry and hermione have already saved buckbeak and he is just chopping a pumpkin, but you don't know that until you see it after harry and hermione go back and save buckbeak.
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bery26
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
^ no, in the movies it shows clearly how the trio see buckbeak's decapitation, you should check out that part again
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GinnyX
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bery26 wrote:
^ no, in the movies it shows clearly how the trio see buckbeak's decapitation, you should check out that part again


Nope, they don't clearly see it. They see the ax raised, then lowered. But they don't see the actual decapitation.
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zengrenouille
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
GinnyX wrote:
bery26 wrote:
^ no, in the movies it shows clearly how the trio see buckbeak's decapitation, you should check out that part again


Nope, they don't clearly see it. They see the ax raised, then lowered. But they don't see the actual decapitation.


It's definately what Gin said. They saw the axe raise. The future HArry and Hermione were out there the first time around in the movie. Otherwise, there would have been no one to throw the rocks into Hagrid's huts. They wouldn't have just flown in with a gust of wind.

There is something that also confused me about that bit.

When Hermione in the future chucked them, Harry in the future grabbed his head, even though the rock hit the past Harry. Then he saw, "That hurt." Could the future Harry feel the pain, too. It seemed like it.
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GinnyX
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
zengrenouille wrote:


When Hermione in the future chucked them, Harry in the future grabbed his head, even though the rock hit the past Harry. Then he saw, "That hurt." Could the future Harry feel the pain, too. It seemed like it.


I guess so. That part wasn't in the book, though... so I'm not gong to dwell on it, lol.
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zengrenouille
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
GinnyX wrote:
zengrenouille wrote:


When Hermione in the future chucked them, Harry in the future grabbed his head, even though the rock hit the past Harry. Then he saw, "That hurt." Could the future Harry feel the pain, too. It seemed like it.


I guess so. That part wasn't in the book, though... so I'm not gong to dwell on it, lol.


I know it wasn't in the books, but I still want to know. Actually, Hermione throwing those stones was one of the things that I liked in the movies.
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GinnyX
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PostPosted: April 22, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
zengrenouille wrote:
GinnyX wrote:
zengrenouille wrote:


When Hermione in the future chucked them, Harry in the future grabbed his head, even though the rock hit the past Harry. Then he saw, "That hurt." Could the future Harry feel the pain, too. It seemed like it.


I guess so. That part wasn't