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GinnyX
Joined: May 6, 2007
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 Posted: April 12, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
what i dont get is why snape didntrealize how dangerous voldy was for her if she and james had thrice defied him (like the prophecy says), wasnt snape scared for her even then? or do you think he might have not known this?
and i agree with you ginny, slughorn is the only slytherin i kind of like, cause he's the only slytherin who doesnt hate harry lol |
I don't think Snape knew exactly how many times Lily and James defied Voldemort. And I'm sure plenty of people defied him multiple times. JKR said something about this, when someone asked what James and Lily did those three times.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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but then you're saying that snape did know that there had been a couple of confrontations between them and voldy? dont you think he was worried or something?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
| but then you're saying that snape did know that there had been a couple of confrontations between them and voldy? dont you think he was worried or something? |
I think he knew that they were not supporters, but I don't think he knew enough about their defiance to care. He overheard the prophecy and reported it to Voldemort before he knew it was Lily's son it was talking about. As soon as he did find out that Voldie was gunning for Lily, he went to DD for help. We don't know the exact number of times they defied Voldemort, but as members of the Order, I'm sure it was many times, not three exactly. Maybe more, maybe less.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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it could be that way, otherwise i would've thought he should really have left voldy's side before the whole prophecy thing
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
| it could be that way, otherwise i would've thought he should really have left voldy's side before the whole prophecy thing |
He and Lily weren't speaking at that point. I don't think she was on the forefront of his mind, but then when he discovered Voldie had a hit out on her, he had an epiphany that he had to help her. That's my theory, anyway.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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and he wouldnt have found out about the potters through anybody else? im sure it was well known that the potters were very against voldy
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
| and he wouldnt have found out about the potters through anybody else? im sure it was well known that the potters were very against voldy |
Of course he knew they were against Voldemort. But until Lily's life was at risk, I'm sure he didn't care.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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i really dont get his line of thinking then!! 
lily was in danger if she was defying voldy and im sure snape knew this, then why did he stayed on voldy's side until he knew voldy targeted her because of the prophecy?
if they had had one confrontation i think that should be enough
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
i really dont get his line of thinking then!!
lily was in danger if she was defying voldy and im sure snape knew this, then why did he stayed on voldy's side until he knew voldy targeted her because of the prophecy?
if they had had one confrontation i think that should be enough |
I don't understand what you don't understand. He knew since they were friends at Hogwarts that Lily was against Voldemort.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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then, if he lover her as much as he claimed, why on earth did he joined voldy? or rather why didnt he leave him as soon as he endangered lily's life (you know in the ties she defied him)
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
| then, if he lover her as much as he claimed, why on earth did he joined voldy? |
Didn't you answer this question yourself in a different thread? It's because Snape wanted to fit in and was blinded by the Dark arts that he has always been entranced with. Snape spent the rest of his life kicking himself for choosing one over the other.
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| or rather why didnt he leave him as soon as he endangered lily's life (you know in the ties she defied him) |
You are dwelling wayyy to much on the "thrice defied" him thing. JKR herself said it doesn't matter about the number. Just not being a supporter is defying hhim, which a lot of people were.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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i still dont get it, snape is always going to be a mistery to me, cause i dont get his logic
he knew that voldy endangered lily's life even before the whole prophecy thing happened and he still stayed on voldy's side until he started absolutely targeting her son
but then after she dies, even then he seems to hate more the guy who had loved her (james) and other who would have sure loved her if she had been alive (harry), than the guy who actually killed her (voldy)
also, he obviously loves blindly because if he thought it was a good thing for her to keep her alive and have her husband and son die in front of her then he didnt know her one bit
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
i still dont get it, snape is always going to be a mistery to me, cause i dont get his logic
he knew that voldy endangered lily's life even before the whole prophecy thing happened and he still stayed on voldy's side until he started absolutely targeting her son
but then after she dies, even then he seems to hate more the guy who had loved her (james) and other who would have sure loved her if she had been alive (harry), than the guy who actually killed her (voldy)
also, he obviously loves blindly because if he thought it was a good thing for her to keep her alive and have her husband and son die in front of her then he didnt know her one bit |
mmhhmm, and he spent the rest of his life hating himself and kicking himself because of the choices he made.
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zengrenouille
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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You're forgetting one thing, Bery. Harry wasn't even born yet. When Snape told Voldemort the prophecy, he didn't know that Lily and James would have a son who would fit the description. Maybe he didn't know Lily was pregnant, and if he did then he might not have known that Harry was to be born at the end of july.
Even Voldemort had to figure out who it could be.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| zengrenouille wrote: |
You're forgetting one thing, Bery. Harry wasn't even born yet. When Snape told Voldemort the prophecy, he didn't know that Lily and James would have a son who would fit the description. Maybe he didn't know Lily was pregnant, and if he did then he might not have known that Harry was to be born at the end of july.
Even Voldemort had to figure out who it could be. |
eeh? sorry i dont follow you, im saying that snape must have known lily was against voldy and had even sort of defied him before he even heard the prophecy but was still on voldy's side
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| mmhhmm, and he spent the rest of his life hating himself and kicking himself because of the choices he made. |
i dont remember the books saying that, but rather that he regretted having told the prophecy to voldy and because of that lily died, it doesnt say he regretted any of the other stuff like having not cared if her son and husband died
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
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| mmhhmm, and he spent the rest of his life hating himself and kicking himself because of the choices he made. |
i dont remember the books saying that, but rather that he regretted having told the prophecy to voldy and because of that lily died, it doesnt say he regretted any of the other stuff like having not cared if her son and husband died |
That's what "hating himself and kicking himself" means, that he regretted the choices he made. He chose the dark side, he chose to befriend the DE's, among other choices. When he told Voldemort the prophecy he didn't know it was going to endanger Lily or her family. So although I think he regrets passing on that information, I think he regrets the choices he made that led him to that position in the first place more.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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no, you didnt get what im trying to say
im saying that he didnt seem to regret at all or understand how bad it was the letting lily's husband and son die and keeping only her alive
and he finally seems to die still hating more james than voldy and only not hating harry just as much in the very end when he's about to die
so he's logic hardly makes sense to me after all, he may have a couple of good qualities, but morals werent his thing thats for sure 
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GinnyX
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
no, you didnt get what im trying to say
im saying that he didnt seem to regret at all or understand how bad it was the letting lily's husband and son die and keeping only her alive
and he finally seems to die still hating more james than voldy and only not hating harry just as much in the very end when he's about to die
so he's logic hardly makes sense to me after all, he may have a couple of good qualities, but morals werent his thing thats for sure |
I get what you mean with that. He asked Voldemort to pardon Lily, but not her son and husband. That in itself was lame of Snape. Snape continued to hate James even though all those years went by. He took it out on Harry, even though Harry never did anything to him. Snape was a poopiehead in that sense, we agree on that. Asking Voldemort to save Lily and not her family was selfish of him, imo. But it was also a desperate plea. He was still young at the time and, yeah, he wasn't thinking right.
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ThE_DaRk_MaRk
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: Why did those clever guys(eg Snape) want to be death eat |
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| cleo wrote: |
Why did they become death eaters? Snape and Malfoy were not stupid. They were smart and clever, and yet, sleek and cunning.
They wanted more power from Voldy and they could be so sure that their wish would be granted... well... almost... Only if there was no prophecy, only if there was no one could vanquish the dark lord.
Then they got the news and they probably were shocked and scared that the dark lord would really lose the power one day. They had to find ways to get out.
Finally they succeed. Snape did it by giving information to DD. Malfoy by pretending that he was under the control of imperius curse. They really didn't go to Azkaban. How cunning they were! |
I think most of us can agree Snape was very clever but Malfoy wasn't. He was just Rich and always had a need to attach to someone who had power. When Voldemort was gone he was always contributing money to the Ministry so he could be closer with the higher ups. As for his son, I believe he too did it for the power and it made him quite popular amongst the other Slytherin students but i don't believe his heart was fully into it.
Snape was always the kind of person where he was torn between his beliefs and love. He thought like Voldemort and Malfoy did with the whole Pure-Blood thing. I assume him having a abusive Muggle father never really helped much either but his love for Lilly stopped him from becoming
consumed by darkness. Also, I don't think he had really seen Lilly as a mud-blood or anything because in his eyes she had always been a witch.
In my opinion Snape was still a bad guy. The only thing that pushed him to work with the order and save Harry was Lilly. With out her what purpose would he have helping anyone on the good side ? He was wise enough to stay out of trouble with the Dark lord and was strong and clever enough to always keep his master happy.
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Snape continued to hate James even though all those years went by |
i really dont get how he can carry such a grudge for a dead guy, i mean, yeah i understand if he was still very bitter about it but hating him with such a passion even after a decade of his death?
from what i see snape can love just as much as he can hate
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ThE_DaRk_MaRk
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bery26 wrote: |
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| Snape continued to hate James even though all those years went by |
i really dont get how he can carry such a grudge for a dead guy, i mean, yeah i understand if he was still very bitter about it but hating him with such a passion even after a decade of his death?
from what i see snape can love just as much as he can hate |
James drove Snape nuts for several years, Can you blame him ? Also, What better way to get revenge on a dead guy then to pick on his son. But..Wouldn't you think he was happy after he had Voldemort kill James ?
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bery26
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| Posted: April 12, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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thats a really awful way to look at it, i understand he hated james while he was alive and if you think of it his hate is really more because james ended up with lily, but carrying such a hate even though said guy has been dead for a decade? thats sick and unhealthy
like i said, he loves just as much as he hates
and yeah, great way to do things, take out said grudge on the son, cause he surely is identical to his father right?
sorry but yes, i blame him, he's doing both bad to harry and himself
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Bianca St. Claire
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| Posted: April 14, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Snape didn't join the Death Eaters as any form of a responsible adult. He was basically a kid and, no offense to the kids here but,
kids do stupid things
Especially kids who have had a bad home life and very few friends. He was already intrigued by the Dark Arts, he was constantly ridiculed, he lost the one real friend he'd ever had - from there it wouldn't take much on his part to grasp at a promise of power. "Here, you'll never be ridiculed again, you can get back at all the people who wronged you." That's a bright, shiny offer that's hard for a miserable, mixed up kid to refuse.
As to still hating James after he died? Some people hold grudges like mad. (I'm one of them - I still remember and am angry about slights from people who have since passed away). Is it healthy? No. Some people just aren't good at letting things go.
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ThE_DaRk_MaRk
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| Posted: April 14, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Snape was a "kid" when he joined the death eaters. He was of age and smart enough to make his own decisions. I don't think it was his age that made the wrong dissensions but his greed and immaturity.
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