Ok...It's a bit out there and everybody will probs shoot me down BUT what if Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him that night...?
It all seems kind of bizarre to me. Dumbledore knew that Malfoy was on a mission for Voldemort but he still left with Harry that night to destroy a Horcrux that had already been destroyed. It doesn't make sense.
AND why has Dumbledore ALWAYS trusted Snape ever since he overheard the prophecy?? Never has he failed to trust him.
So..here goes....
Dumbledore is a Horcrux of Voldemort's. That's why Voldemorts always been 'afraid' of Dumbledore....And on the night they went to destroy a Horcrux, Dumbledore made Snape make an unbreakable vow that he would kill him. So Dumbledore took Harry out of harms way while the school got ransacked by death eaters and showed him all he needed to know bout destroying Horcruxes. Bringing himself close to death anyway by drinking that stuff. So half dead he goes back to the castle and finds the death eaters. He knows Malfoy won't finish him off so when Snape comes out he begs, 'Severus please...' And he does. But he has to keep the act up. Thus destroying another Horcrux.
What do you think??
Even if Dumbledore was a Horcrux, he would kill himself after all the other Horcruxes are destroyed as he himself said in HBP that he has made his responsibility to track down Voldy's past and find out how he can be killed. _________________ Never miss a good chance to shut up!
Spoiler:
Regulus's full name -
Regulus Arcturus Black
Could be R.A.B
It would be very smart of Voldemort to make Dumbledore a Horcrux, as nobody would want Dumbledore dead. However I would think that Dumbledore would wait untill all the Horcrux's had been found and stuck with Harry untill the last minute.
I do think it is quite possible that D and S planned the death all along though. The unusual reaction to the Curse, Madame Pomfrey crying upon hearing Fawkes' Lament as if she knew he was trying to heal D, D's wand not being mentioned, other characters talking of faking deaths and D suggesting it to Malfoy, Fawkes not trying to save him, D's body going up in flames and Harry thinking he sees a pheonix in the smoke, there certainly are a lot of clues pointing to this not being an accident. _________________ Pirates are better than Ninjas.
While I find this to be unlikely, I suppose anything's possible. I have heard theories before that Harry's a Horcrux, but this one is new to me. I seriously doubt it myself.
Ok...It's a bit out there and everybody will probs shoot me down BUT what if Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him that night...?
It all seems kind of bizarre to me. Dumbledore knew that Malfoy was on a mission for Voldemort but he still left with Harry that night to destroy a Horcrux that had already been destroyed. It doesn't make sense.
AND why has Dumbledore ALWAYS trusted Snape ever since he overheard the prophecy?? Never has he failed to trust him.
So..here goes....
Dumbledore is a Horcrux of Voldemort's. That's why Voldemorts always been 'afraid' of Dumbledore....And on the night they went to destroy a Horcrux, Dumbledore made Snape make an unbreakable vow that he would kill him. So Dumbledore took Harry out of harms way while the school got ransacked by death eaters and showed him all he needed to know bout destroying Horcruxes. Bringing himself close to death anyway by drinking that stuff. So half dead he goes back to the castle and finds the death eaters. He knows Malfoy won't finish him off so when Snape comes out he begs, 'Severus please...' And he does. But he has to keep the act up. Thus destroying another Horcrux.
What do you think??
Well, this thoery has already been discusses among the members a long time ago. I think it's possible. But i disagree abouth the theory that Dumbledore has a Horcrux. If he found one, he would have destroyed it on the spot. It's a big risk taking it to Hogwarts and studying it. Remember what happened with Slytherin's ring?
Dumbledore is not the kind of man who would plead for his life. He would have wanted to go down fighting. If Snape really was a Death Eater, Dumbledore would have known that it was no use pleading. Death Eaters do not show mercy. And everyone seems to have forgotten the argument he had with Snape, that Hagrid overheard. J.K Rowling is known for the twists she creates in the story. This might be one. We really don't know. _________________ Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
i dont think it is a possibility at all, i think Snape killed Dumbledore because he is truly an evil deatheater...
Well, then why didn't he kill Dumbledore sooner then? He could've. That's what I don't get when people say that Snape is still an evil deatheater. _________________
My response is that Snape didn't kill Dumbledore sooner because he was already in a tricky place with Harry since he saw Snapes death eater mark in number four along with someone else by him. That's my answer but I might be wrong. _________________
Personally I think Dumbledore being a Horcrux theory is a little farfetched because when Dumbledore is telling us about the horcruxes he mentions that it is risky to make a living, moving, object that can move and think for itself into a horcrux. And Dumbledore being one of the most intelligent wizards of all time would not exactly be the ideal storing place for one of Lord V's horcrux mostly because he is likely to notice not to mention the fact that Lord V and Dumbledore were not exactly the best of chums.
As for Dumbledore having faked his death I think that it is also not very likely first of all because in an interview JKR did she said that she wanted Harry to face Lord V alone. If there are adults like his parents, Sirius and Dumbledore they would undoubtedly interfer with the final battle that I think would kind of ruin the effect of the profecy - Lilly died to try and save her son and it worked, if the adults were to be there they would try and protect Harry and the whole hero image might not stick as much. By getting the adults out of the way i think JKR is setting the stage for the final battle - remember the metaphor she uses of going into the arena to fight to the death with your head heald high? it makes me see in my mind's eye Voldemort and Harry fighting the final battle to the death.
I also don't think that Dumbledore knew that the Locket was a decoy - I don't believe he would put Harry in danger for no good reason.
As for Snape and Dumbledore, I think that Dumbledore being an exallent headmaster haboured paternal feelings for Snape and trusted him for a reason that I can't comprehend - I don't think Harry's explanation was good enough in the hospital wing _________________ "WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORENCE IS STRENGHTH" - "1984" By George Orwell
i dont think it is a possibility at all, i think Snape killed Dumbledore because he is truly an evil deatheater...
I thought the same thing until I read the articles at www. dumbledoreisnotdead.com I think what the creator of the site put there makes more sense then Snape just killing Dumbledore. I think it is a good possibility that Dumbledore told Snape to kill him.
Wow you all certainly think alot . But Dumbledore always said he had a strong reason behind trusting Snape. Perhaps Snape has taken and Unnreakable Vow. This one of course would have tied the one he took with Draco's mother also , which would be one of the reasons he acted so cooly I mean when you take this vow your signing a contract with your life. I don't know about other characters but this seems like a big deal to me. So I think it entirely possible that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him which is also the reason they fought by the forest Snape not wanting or understanding the reason to kill Dumbledore if the time came for it.
Dumbeldore definetly didn't make the unbreakable vow with Snape to kill him. A third person must be involved in the scene and all of the professors at the school think that Snape is a death eater. I just don't see DD sharing that sort of bond with a third person.
DD might have known that he was dying the whole year, because of the cursed hand, or old-age. He probably forced Snape to kill him. That would explain the pleading, and telling Harry all about Horcruxes and letting Harry know everything that only DD could of told him. Harry can learn how to destroy a horcrux from slughorn, maybe lupin, Aberforth. But the information he could not get from anyone else was what DD told him.
Why would DD tell him all of this valueable information? He knew he was dying and that Harry was the only hope for the wizarding world.
Why would Voldemort make the only man he ever feared into a Horcrux? I think he would know that Dumbledore is vailant enough to give himself up *coughchokediecough* to destroy him.
I guess it is possible, though, if you think of it this way... Dumbledore knew he was vital in the fight against Voldemort, and therefore that his life was not one to be thrown away carelessly. If he were a Horcrux, it would make him heistant to kill himself because he knew that no one could be as efficient- indeed, even that anyone could defeat Voldemort- except him.
Still, I don't think it's true. Dumbledore guessed that the remaining Horcruxes were the snake, something of Gryffindor's, something of Ravenclaw's, the cup, and the locket, and, as Sirius says in OOTP, "Dumbledore's shrewd ideas usually turn out to be accurate." Which also means, since he trusted Snape, maybe he was correct...? _________________ Fairytales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.
"Dumbledore made Snape make an unbreakable vow that he would kill him"
When did this happened?????
"DD might have known that he was dying the whole year, because of the cursed hand, or old-age."
And you really think that knowing that the war of all times is about to come, he would have hurried up his death??? I personally think that that is stupid...
Besides, if DD was the hourcux, of however it is spelled, I think it would be smarter to first destroy the others and then kill himself...
i ve been thinking about this a long time. if dumbledore knew that malfoy was notgoing to do him in when he was wandless on the ground, wouldnt he have gone and picked it up
also, when he said ''sevarus, please" i think he wanted snape to kill him.
maybe it is a posibility that dd knew that there was a fake horcrux in the cave, and that dd thought that if he showed harry how to get a fake horcrux, then when he went to find the other ones he would get the proper hands on training he will need fo dual voldie
i think that we will see more of the mysterious RAB in only letters giving clues and riddles about te wherabouts of the horcruxes _________________ but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it. Those who have leadership thrust upon them ... and take the mantle because they must, to find to their own surprise that they wear it well
well... I don't know, why would DD just kill himself to tell Harry how to go after a Hx??? That is kind of dumb...
But I do agree with you about the notes of RAB... may be there is a connection of sirius coming back... (PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE make him come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!) _________________ Sonita
You are all forgetting several things DD has one VERY solid reason for trusting Snape. Also in my theory the only thing I could see to make DD trust snape that much would be an unbreakable vow.
But consider this if there was an unbreakable vow made by DD and Snape ( Yes I know you need a third person.) It would tie in even if DD knew he was dying he needed a way to insure Harry stayed safe and it seems best that Snape assume this role.
I consider the thought that DD also doesn't want Malfoy to die seeing how at the end he trys to turn him. (Also remember in the OoP that when Umbridge shakes Marietta DD becomes outraged) perhaps DD thinks Malfoy has some part to play in the future. ( I often think of Tolkien keeping Gollum alive throughout the Hobbit and LOTR.)
And yes this was like the first topic we discussed when this forum opened and it was mainly 4-5 ppl 0o
J.K. Rowling is the reigning queen of Red Herrings, as we know...
Is it possible this is the grandfather of them all? Sure. But to which extreme might it be the absolute unexpected? Perhaps Snape is really good and Dumbledore is really hiding somewhere waiting to join Harry in the final battle. Not likely. Or perhaps Snape is really evil and Dumbledore is really dead and Harry is on his own. Plausible.
Snape might be evil and he might not. The fact is, he shot something that sounded and looked like a Killing Curse at Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower. Maybe he did it under the provisions of an Unbreakable Vow (which we won't know until the person creating the Charm says so) or maybe he did it bound to his OTHER Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa and Dumbledore was simply begging for his life.
I'm inclined to believe on the literal side of the Red Herring, in that Dumbledore is gone. Harry does not have his parents, he does not have his godfather, and he does not have his mentor because he is intended to complete this mission by himself. A friend of mine, last summer before the release of HBP, told me that he believed Dumbledore would die because he had given Harry everything he could give. At the time of Sirius's death, he had given Harry all he could give as well--protection, information about his parents, and love. When Harry's parents died, they gave him the ultimate thing of all the things they could give him--their lives.
Dumbledore sat with Harry at the end of OotP and told him everything he knew about the Prophecy. He worked with him in HBP to tell him everything he knew about Horcruxes. Dumbledore's well of knowledge has run dry and Harry now has to do this on his own. Nobody else is equipped to give him anything else to help, aside from the loyalty and bravery of his friends. Dumbledore won't be back.
As to the question of Snape's loyalty...
I want to have faith in Dumbledore; I really do. I want to believe that he was not totally misguided in his trust, but it's hard, envisioning Snape killing him and running away. I don't think I believe Snape is evil; I think he was forced into an act he didn't want to do because of that troublesome Unbreakable Vow, and I think he ultimately wanted to protect Draco as much as Dumbledore did. But was Dumbledore right to trust him? Maybe, maybe not.
Didn't Sirius say at some point in one of the books (and forgive me, I'm missing my copies right now) that the world is not separated into good people and Death Eaters? Snape may not be "good" or completely trustworthy, but that doesn't place his loyalty solely with the Dark Lord. I think Dumbledore made the best choice he could for what he had to decide from, but I also think he may have decided differently if he'd known it was Snape who revealed the bit of the Prophecy to Voldemort. At the time he decided to trust Snape, Snape was most assuredly not on the right side.
I think it's very likely that this is one Red Herring that SO many of us didn't see coming--that old men like Dumbledore CAN and DO make mistakes, as he so grudgingly admitted to Harry in OotP. They make mistakes, they are often stubborn, and yes, they CAN die and usually do. Being the most powerful wizard since Merlin does not make one immune to death--we know Dumbledore has kept his soul. _________________ "Wow, I wonder what it'd be like to have a difficult life," said Harry sarcastically.
Last edited by Ravenwood on September 9, 2006 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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. But Dumbledore always said he had a strong reason behind trusting Snape. Perhaps Snape has taken and Unnreakable Vow. This one of course would have tied the one he took with Draco's mother also , which would be one of the reasons he acted so cooly I mean when you take this vow your signing a contract with your life. I don't know about other characters but this seems like a big deal to me. So I think it entirely possible that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him which is also the reason they fought by the forest Snape not wanting or understanding the reason to kill Dumbledore if the time came for it.