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teamopiu
Joined: Oct 31, 2007
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 Posted: December 20, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: The Portait of Albus P.W.B Dumbledore |
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Could Harry and other's have long converstaions with the portait of Dumbledore as if it were the real thing. Are the Headmasters and Headmistres's portrait's at Hogwarts an exact copy of the person they are repersenting.
I mean, in a way I don't see how the death of Dumbledore could be very sad, seeing as you can talk to his portait in the Headmasters study?.
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potterisnoplotter
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| Posted: December 20, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: Portrait |
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yeah i totally agree, i always figured harry wld carry round a pic of dumbledore when he was lookin for the horcruxes.
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 20, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's just a sort-of imprint of his soul. It's not the real thing. If anything it would be very bittersweet to talk to the portrait at all, as Harry did at the end of DH. It wasn't really DD, it was just a shadow of him, a hint of what he was.
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ThE_DaRk_MaRk
Joined: Nov 29, 2006
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| Posted: December 20, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Portrait |
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| potterisnoplotter wrote: |
| yeah i totally agree, i always figured harry wld carry round a pic of dumbledore when he was lookin for the horcruxes. |
He wouldn't be able to carry the canvas of DD around because all of the portraits were loyal to the headmaster of Hogwarts, not to server anyone else.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 21, 2007 12:59 am Post subject: |
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ive a bit of a problem with portraits and horcruxes. what makes a portrait, not a horcrux if the subjects in the portraits can think and act for themselves?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 21, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| ive a bit of a problem with portraits and horcruxes. what makes a portrait, not a horcrux if the subjects in the portraits can think and act for themselves? |
because the portraits aren't created by a deplorable act, so horrid that Hermiopne doesn't even say it to Ron and Harry. In other words, I think it more has to do with the act behind making them.
Plus, a horcrux is a piece of the person's soul, while the portrait is just a shadow of the person.
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zengrenouille
Joined: Aug 1, 2007
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| Posted: December 21, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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^ on top of that, horcruxes and portraits have two entirely different purposes. Portraits are merely one way for wizards to leave an imprint of themselves. They don't carry an bit of souls. They merely are like video recordings of people. They regurgitate the advice that these people were popular for.
Horcruxes are tools to help people maintain immortality. They actually carry pieces of souls. Unlike portraits, people cannot die when they have horcruxes. Messing with horcruxes mean messing with fate. There is an extreme difference.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 22, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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yah it depends on the act and whether or not it contains a bot of soul. but, portraits can think independently as well. what is the difference between the imprint and the soul if they can think?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 22, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| yah it depends on the act and whether or not it contains a bot of soul. but, portraits can think independently as well. what is the difference between the imprint and the soul if they can think? |
None of the pieces of soul could think. Neither could the portraits, really.
Here is a piece of an interview JKR gave, she explaisn about portraits a bit further
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J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival
All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?
That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death. |
In other words, the portraits of people with an imprint of their aura. A Horcrux is a piece of soul that was ripped away from a person. It can't talk or move around or give advice. It wouldn't even exist without it's host, whether it be a diary or a snake.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 22, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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well ok... the portrait of sirius' mom was "trained" to say "filthy mudbloods! scum! besmirching the house of my fathers!" and prongs was trained to say "professor snape is an ugly git" in the marauder's map. but what about phineas? phineas actually thinks...
i think it was in the horcruxes chapter when dumbledore said that he realized the diary was a horcrux, because it could think for itself... aside from possessing a person. i mean, alright, portraits cannot possess people... but when he said "think for itself"... welll portraits do that too...
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 22, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
well ok... the portrait of sirius' mom was "trained" to say "filthy mudbloods! scum! besmirching the house of my fathers!" and prongs was trained to say "professor snape is an ugly git" in the marauder's map. but what about phineas? phineas actually thinks...
i think it was in the horcruxes chapter when dumbledore said that he realized the diary was a horcrux, because it could think for itself... aside from possessing a person. i mean, alright, portraits cannot possess people... but when he said "think for itself"... welll portraits do that too... |
Neither entity really thinks for itself. You are giving the horcruxes and the portraits way too much credit. They aren't people or animals, they have no tangible brain. All of the portraits are mimics of the people, but Mrs. Black's portrait is just a shoddy version of the headmasters' and headmistress' portraits.
JKR says this about the headmasters' portraits...
"They repeat catchphrases, almost."
The same goes with the Horcrux. It doesn't think on it's own, it is only a piece of wicked soul left behind.
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viktor121
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| Posted: December 23, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: |
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yeah i tought so too...i mean he could talk to him anyway
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 24, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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but they are updated with current info... they actually serve the present headmaster, they can relay information...
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 24, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| but they are updated with current info... they actually serve the present headmaster, they can relay information... |
yeah, they are basically repeating what they heard, kinda like parrots, except they aren't birds.
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zengrenouille
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| Posted: December 25, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| but they are updated with current info... they actually serve the present headmaster, they can relay information... |
Computers can keep up with current information, repeat popular phrases, give and send messages, and give advice. They aren't the same as people, though. I think of portraits in a similar way.
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maximus55669
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| Posted: December 26, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
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an imprint, a shadow, nothing more. the portrait has a sembelence of the person that accupied it. It may respond based on the nature/past responses of that person and may even comprehend current information, but in the end, it isn't the same as the original.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 27, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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yeah they retain their old characters... and their knowlegde remains the same since the time they died... but you can update them with info. the portrait of phineas is updated with info, which he uses to think... he doesnt just relay info... he knows about harry potter and voldemort and stuff, and makes use of that info... like a horcrux does... remember, riddle's diary did not know that lord voldemort was vanquished, and he did not know about harry potter, until ginny told him... right?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 27, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| yeah they retain their old characters... and their knowlegde remains the same since the time they died... but you can update them with info. the portrait of phineas is updated with info, which he uses to think... he doesnt just relay info... he knows about harry potter and voldemort and stuff, and makes use of that info... like a horcrux does... remember, riddle's diary did not know that lord voldemort was vanquished, and he did not know about harry potter, until ginny told him... right? |
Right, but the Horcrux was only able to retain that information by possessing Ginny as she poured out her soul to him. Without Ginny writing in it, the Horcrux was useless, it just lay there dormant in that diary until Ginny started writing in it.
The portraits, on the other hand, do not need someone to write on it, or wear it, or whateevr to make the comments and say the phrases that they do.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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yeah so pretty much the thinking capacity of portraits and horcruxes are the same. why was that particular line very misleading?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| yeah so pretty much the thinking capacity of portraits and horcruxes are the same. why was that particular line very misleading? |
I think the difference is still shakey. We never find out what the diadem or the cup was capable of, if anything at all. It makes it comparing the two things very difficult, since Horcruxes c an come in many shapes and sizes.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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sounds like portraits are more capable of thinking... the only power which i know a horcrux has that a portrait has not is that it can possess people...
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GinnyX
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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And it can feed off of poeple's insecurities, as the locket did to Ron.
I don't know if it can so much possess someone, as it can work off of their vulnerabilities. What I mean is, since Ginny poured her "soul" out, Tom was able to possess her. Had she not, then perhaps he wouldn't have been able to possess her. Same with Ron. The locket effected Harry and Hermione, but not as much as Ron. Because, as JKR said, he was the "heart" of the group as well as very insecure.
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potterisnoplotter
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: Portrait |
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i think that the interaction of any given magical object (especially horcruxes) has to do with the level of trust or insecurities that the possessor has. for instance, the diary was able to posses Ginny because she was nervous and insecure at her new school. the locket bothered ron more the harry and Hermione because he was feeling rejected and cowardly, he was feeling bad about coming with harry as well as feeling bad about that.
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maximus55669
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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well, the diary took control of ginny because she wrote in it and basically poured her soul in it, therefore handing her soul over to tom riddle. In ron's case, the locket basically like you said, enhanced his insecurities.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: December 28, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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