gosh you guys are totally gryffindors. none of that enters my mind. the stuff i think of are mainly how i can become successful, and what will i do if i became successful, and how to get back at my enemies without anything being traced back to me or without landing in jail. _________________
For the people that are educated, and have formed educated opinions here, well, everyone disagrees, but we aren't out murdering each other over our disagreements, or killing rape victims.
You're right. Here in America we don't go bombing buildings over or disagreements
I don't even have to read that to know what you're talking about. Did you just cut out the part that said "educated?" None of our laws sanction bombings of abortion clinics.
What do I know about Saudi life? Not a whole lot. I did have Saudi friends though, growing up, who pretty much agreed life there was equatable to a pile of shit.
You're comparing a Harry Potter Internet forum to the masses? That's just...laughable. A lot of these kids are...what...I'd say 10-16, and hold no real political interest. They disagree with America's ways because they're at that rebellious age, or because their favorite song tells them America sucks. For the people that are educated, and have formed educated opinions here, well, everyone disagrees, but we aren't out murdering each other over our disagreements, or killing rape victims.
Let's go back to assumptions. I have known people who have lived in Saudi countries. They don't think that it is as dramatic as the media portrays it.
I also know a lot about people and how they feel about countries abroad. I have moved a lot in my life. I have met a lot of people. I only lived in America, but I have met people from so many different countries. I have met people from countries that you probably didn't even know existed, because they are pretty much never talked about. We have these same debated every day at school. I go to Penn State, and We are currently discussing Islam in my World Religions class. There are middle-aged men who have the same opinions as the 16-year-olds in this site. There are also 16-year-olds on this site who are more worldly than some of the middle-aged men that I go to school with. The problem is that whether on a HP site or in a state college, the general masses know what the media feeds them about the rest of the world. They believe that, because that is what they have always known. _________________
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oh thats interesting. i never did meet anyone from a country i didnt know.
anyway, i did figure that the media might have ben exaggerating.
but there is no denying that women are also very much repressed in the middle east.
and that bit of news must have had a grain of truth in it.
i believe in the rape case and the 200 lashes.
but i am not truly certain about the circumstances why the 200 lashes are being administered.
there might be more to it than just simply being in the car with men, none of whom are her betrothed.
but nevertheless, a rape victim subjected to 200 lashes is just totally wrong. _________________
oh thats interesting. i never did meet anyone from a country i didnt know.
anyway, i did figure that the media might have ben exaggerating.
but there is no denying that women are also very much repressed in the middle east.
and that bit of news must have had a grain of truth in it.
i believe in the rape case and the 200 lashes.
but i am not truly certain about the circumstances why the 200 lashes are being administered.
there might be more to it than just simply being in the car with men, none of whom are her betrothed.
but nevertheless, a rape victim subjected to 200 lashes is just totally wrong.
I agree that it is wrong. My point was that there is no reason to start attacking Muslim nations for being backwards. There are rules in the western nations that are just wrong as well. Also, some of these things that we feel are backwards are ways that these nations keep their morals straight. I don't believe that punishing a woman for simply being in a car with unmarried men should be punishable by law. For them, though, it may not be so simple. _________________
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i get what you mean. its like we are imposing our own western ideals to them (ok, im actually from the east, but many of our country's beliefs are western, after centuries of colonization).
nevertheless, as a feminist, id have to side with the western ideals here. _________________
Saudi Court to Review Case of Rape Victim Sentenced to 200 Lashes
Wednesday, November 28, 2007
A Saudi court will review the case of a teenage gang rape victim sentenced to jail and flogging after she was convicted of violating the country's strict sex segregation laws, the foreign minister said Tuesday.
The remarks by Prince Saud al-Faisal, made in the United States and carried by the official Saudi Press Agency, were the latest in response to a salvo of international condemnation of Saudi judicial authorities' handling of the case.
It was also a sharp turn from a statement Saturday in which the Saudi Justice Ministry condemned the 19-year-old woman — raped by seven men and then sentenced to six months prison and 200 lashes — as an adulteress who had allegedly confessed to cheating on her husband.
In the statement, the ministry said the flogging sentence would be carried out and condemned foreign interference. The statement likely sought to ease international outrage over the case by discrediting the woman.
On Tuesday, SPA quoted al-Faisal as saying "the Saudi judiciary will review the case."
But al-Faisal was also on the defensive and maintained the case was being used against Saudi authorities.
While she was in the car, two men got into the vehicle and drove them to a secluded area where others waited, and then she and her companion were both raped.
The ministry's account Saturday alleged that the woman and her lover met in his car for a tryst "in a dark place where they stayed for a while."
The girl was initially sentenced to prison and 90 lashes for being alone with a man not related to her. An appeals court then doubled the lashes to 200.
The increase in sentence received heavy coverage in the international media and prompted expressions of astonishment from the U.S. government. Canada called it "barbaric."
Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives. Also, women in Saudi Arabia are often sentenced to flogging and even death for adultery and other crimes.
The seven men convicted of gang raping the woman were given prison sentences of two to nine years.
The case has sparked rare domestic debate about the Saudi legal system, which gives judges wide discretion in sentencing and where rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no lawyers are present.
Justice in Saudi Arabia is administered by a system of religious courts and judges appointed by the king on the recommendation of the Supreme Judicial Council. Those courts and judges have complete discretion to set sentences, except in cases where Sharia outlines a punishment, such as capital crimes.
That means that no two judges would likely hand down the same sentence for similar crimes. A rapist, for instance, could receive anywhere from a light or no sentence to death, depending on the judge's discretion. _________________
even if she cheated on her husband (and i dont think rape should be considered adultery, unless i read it wrong) 200 lashes is wicked harsh. and the rapists get 2-9 yrs?! thats stupid. _________________
no i dont think it was considered rape. i think she really did have a lover. if so, fine. but i still dont agree with beating up someone who doesnt love her spouse anymore. she doesnt love you? quit forcing her. she is entitled to her own happiness.
as for the rapists, 2-9 years isnt enough. lifetime imprisonment, or better yet, death. _________________
Report: Saudi King Pardons Teen Female Rape Victim Sentenced to 200 Lashes
Monday, December 17, 2007
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has pardoned a female rape victim who had been sentenced to 200 lashes for being alone with a man at the time of the attack who was not related to her, a Saudi newspaper reported Monday.
The case had sparked international outcry. In a rare criticism of its Mideast ally, the White House had expressed its "astonishment" over the woman's sentence. Canada called it barbaric.
Saudi Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammed al-Sheik told al-Jazirah newspaper that the pardon does not mean the king doubted the country's judges, but instead acted in the "interests of the people."
"The king always looks into alleviating the suffering of the citizens when he becomes sure that these verdicts will leave psychological effects on the convicted people, though he is convinced and sure that the verdicts were fair," al-Jazirah quoted al-Sheik as saying.
The victim in the case, known only as the "Girl of Qatif" after her hometown in eastern Saudi Arabia, was in a car with a high school friend in 2006 when they were attacked and raped by seven men.
She initially was sentenced in November 2006 to several months in prison and 90 lashes for being alone in a car with a man with whom she was neither related nor married, a violation of the kingdom's strict segregation of the sexes.
The woman, who was 19 at the time of the rape, has said she met the man to retrieve a picture of herself from him because she had recently married.
The court more than doubled the sentence last month to 200 lashes and six months prison in response to her appeal.
President Bush expressed anger at the sentence earlier this month, saying he wondered how he would react if it had been one of his daughters. But he said he had not made his views known directly to the Saudi king, a U.S. ally.
The Justice Ministry has defended the sentence, saying the girl was having an illicit affair with the man.
Al-Sheik told al-Jazirah newspaper Monday that the king was the only official who could issue a pardon, and he did so despite the government's view that the Saudi legal system was "honest" and "fair."
"The king's order consolidates and confirms what is known about the Islamic courts," said al-Sheik. "Efficient judges look into different cases and issue their just verdicts and those convicted have the right to appeal."
The seven men who were convicted of raping both the girl and the man were initially sentenced to jail terms from 10 months to five years. Their sentences were increased to between two and nine years after the appeal. _________________
Did the woman come outright and say "I was cheating on my husband?" I don't remember reading that, if she did, and if she didn't, then she isn't an adulterer. Rape does not make you a cheater. And HBP is right...even if she did cheat on her husband, she doesn't deserve jailtime, or to be whipped. _________________
if i remember correctly i believe she was in a car with a man that wasnt her husband as a seperate incident than the rape.
but i by no means am defending them just clarifying what i remember.
Just being in a car with someone doesn't mean they're a cheater. Unless that really is what their religion preaches. I've cheated tons of times then. _________________
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