i agree. but i also think that One of the resons snape loathed harry as much as he did was because, everytime he saw harry, he would of seen lily's eyes and then remembered lily, but then he would of seen the rest of harry and seen james. all harry was for snape was a reminder of the love lily and james shared, and the sacrifice lilly made for him.
i feel sorry for snape, but i think he could of treated harry alot better then what he did. _________________ .love.peace.and.something.else.
Harry's FATHER'S Patronus was a stag, and whenever Lily would think of something happy, it would probably be James, so her Patronus took the form of a doe which goes with a stag.
wow i never really thought of the relation between the 2 like that until now _________________
I was under the impression that he loathed Harry, seeing him as the second coming of James, but still protecting him because of Lily. _________________
I think he had an obcession and he was a puny wimp. He did not love Lily. Which is sad because I would have enjoyed that.
Damn Snape, he deserved better. He deserved to have a life which he had make ammnends not only to her.
What makes you think he didn't love her?
Since when that thing that was described can be love? THat is obcession. No one who loved other bases their lives on that person or her son in this case.
I'm sorry, but that's way too retarded. I would have called it love if Snape had made anything else besides Harry in his life. But he didn't. THt's not love in my book. Thats sick obcession. _________________ beware the spelling
I think he had an obcession and he was a puny wimp. He did not love Lily. Which is sad because I would have enjoyed that.
Damn Snape, he deserved better. He deserved to have a life which he had make ammnends not only to her.
What makes you think he didn't love her?
Since when that thing that was described can be love? THat is obcession. No one who loved other bases their lives on that person or her son in this case.
I'm sorry, but that's way too retarded. I would have called it love if Snape had made anything else besides Harry in his life. But he didn't. THt's not love in my book. Thats sick obcession.
He loved her, he screwed up, got her killed, spent the rest of his life redeeming himself for her. Harry loves Lily, he spent seven years trying to hunt down the man responsible and kill him, not for the greater good, not because of an obsession with his parents but because he loved them and wanted vengeance. _________________
I think he had an obcession and he was a puny wimp. He did not love Lily. Which is sad because I would have enjoyed that.
Damn Snape, he deserved better. He deserved to have a life which he had make ammnends not only to her.
What makes you think he didn't love her?
Since when that thing that was described can be love? THat is obcession. No one who loved other bases their lives on that person or her son in this case.
I'm sorry, but that's way too retarded. I would have called it love if Snape had made anything else besides Harry in his life. But he didn't. THt's not love in my book. Thats sick obcession.
J.K. Rowling said it was love, SO YOU'RE WRONG!!!
Okay, just kidding. *shrug* It might not be love in your eyes, that's cool with me.
I think he had an obcession and he was a puny wimp. He did not love Lily. Which is sad because I would have enjoyed that.
Damn Snape, he deserved better. He deserved to have a life which he had make ammnends not only to her.
What makes you think he didn't love her?
Since when that thing that was described can be love? THat is obcession. No one who loved other bases their lives on that person or her son in this case.
I'm sorry, but that's way too retarded. I would have called it love if Snape had made anything else besides Harry in his life. But he didn't. THt's not love in my book. Thats sick obcession.
He loved her, he screwed up, got her killed, spent the rest of his life redeeming himself for her. Harry loves Lily, he spent seven years trying to hunt down the man responsible and kill him, not for the greater good, not because of an obsession with his parents but because he loved them and wanted vengeance.
You may want to change something on your reply, snce you obviously messed it up.
Anyway, no, that isn't love for me, it's obcession. Guilt taking over one's life is obcession. There are several fiction characters that have this guilt of killing a loved one all throughout their history, they make ammends, they change their lifestyle, they protect others but they do not live only for it. That's sick, disturbing and a complete downgrading of what's life is supposed to be.
But t's obvious you can't change your opinion and I won't change mine either. Sorry
Nightwind wrote:
Panzer_Pandora wrote:
Nightwind wrote:
Panzer_Pandora wrote:
I think he had an obcession and he was a puny wimp. He did not love Lily. Which is sad because I would have enjoyed that.
Damn Snape, he deserved better. He deserved to have a life which he had make ammnends not only to her.
What makes you think he didn't love her?
Since when that thing that was described can be love? THat is obcession. No one who loved other bases their lives on that person or her son in this case.
I'm sorry, but that's way too retarded. I would have called it love if Snape had made anything else besides Harry in his life. But he didn't. THt's not love in my book. Thats sick obcession.
J.K. Rowling said it was love, SO YOU'RE WRONG!!!
Okay, just kidding. *shrug* It might not be love in your eyes, that's cool with me.
Aw well, I would have accepted it if Snape hadn't been so downgraded. This way, it just degraded his own mission. I was a supporter of him lking Lily and why he was protecting Harry. I never though that was the sole reason of his existence. Where is the character that captivated us for better or for worse siince book one? Reduced to a one dimensional puny wimp who couldn't get over it. But like Snape, there were a lot of characters who were destroyed in book 7. And they had so much potential... _________________ beware the spelling
Okay a lot of people have been saying/implying that Snape "always" loved Harry deep down but I assumed he was talking about Lily.. here's the paragraph:
"'I have spied for you, and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe. Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter -'
'But this is touching Severus,' said Dumbledore seriously. 'Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?'
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: she landed on the office floor, bounded once accross the office and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
'After all this time?'
Always,' said Snape."
Points for the Lily argument:
He seemed defensive by shouting and emphasising the word "him" as if scornfully.
The doe is the same as Lily's.
The statement "After all this time?" could mean after all the years since Lily's death.
Points for the Harry argument:
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that.
Yup, I came to the same conclusion based on the text you quote. "After all this time" is clearly linked to the patronus, which indicates Lily. The "For him?" (Harry) is stated scornfully, and with a question mark.
I'm not sure why the Snape apologists insist on whitewashing him. He was a mean-spirited bully, who persecuted Harry at every opportunity. he only saw James in Harry, and only aided Harry because Dumbledore shamed him into it. Only at the literal very end as he is moments from dieing does it even seem to dawn on him that there's a reflection of Lily within Harry, and that seems more like surprise on his part, and hardly like or even love. The text makes it seem clear enough without Rowling confirming it, but to ignore both, well, wishful thinking.
Snape is a great character. He is great because of his flaws and conflicts. That doesn't transalate into a likeable character, or a fair one, or a caring one. There was a capacity to do good (if only on his own terms), and there was a struggle for redemption, which he achieved to some degree, and he had a capacity for love, even if it had something of a creepy, obsessive, stalker quality to it. But no, he never seemed to transfer any of the love he felt for Lily to her son.
Aw well, I would have accepted it if Snape hadn't been so downgraded. This way, it just degraded his own mission. I was a supporter of him lking Lily and why he was protecting Harry. I never though that was the sole reason of his existence. Where is the character that captivated us for better or for worse siince book one? Reduced to a one dimensional puny wimp who couldn't get over it. But like Snape, there were a lot of characters who were destroyed in book 7. And they had so much potential...
What did you think was the reason for his existence then? Have you ever loved? Caused the death of a loved one? I can understand that it is an obsession but that doesn't mean he never loved Lily. And how is he a one-dimensional wimp? He risked his life in a selfless way for selfish reasons.
As for the mistake I made, feel free to enlighten me. _________________
Yup, I came to the same conclusion based on the text you quote. "After all this time" is clearly linked to the patronus, which indicates Lily. The "For him?" (Harry) is stated scornfully, and with a question mark.
I'm not sure why the Snape apologists insist on whitewashing him. He was a mean-spirited bully, who persecuted Harry at every opportunity. he only saw James in Harry, and only aided Harry because Dumbledore shamed him into it. Only at the literal very end as he is moments from dieing does it even seem to dawn on him that there's a reflection of Lily within Harry, and that seems more like surprise on his part, and hardly like or even love. The text makes it seem clear enough without Rowling confirming it, but to ignore both, well, wishful thinking.
Snape is a great character. He is great because of his flaws and conflicts. That doesn't transalate into a likeable character, or a fair one, or a caring one. There was a capacity to do good (if only on his own terms), and there was a struggle for redemption, which he achieved to some degree, and he had a capacity for love, even if it had something of a creepy, obsessive, stalker quality to it. But no, he never seemed to transfer any of the love he felt for Lily to her son.
You're right there. I think that Snape hating Harry and doing all of it for Lily and his 'ahem' suposed 'ahem' love for her was done quite well. But not the fact that he based his life on it. THat's what is sad. As you said, Snape is a great character, since book 1 to 7. Seeing him not being able to get over it and living for thirty years in the shadow of someone was quite sad. Quite. I'm not a Snape whitewashing him. He was a mean man. I don't even think he was brave, he was only doing things as a true Slytherin does. Do whatever it takes to achieve the end. But t hurts that he got so much downplayed. He could have been constructed a little better, not only his obcession.
I do think he saw a little of Lily inside Harry though. His eyes were his mother's eyes. But seeing him from afar, offcourse he was James. So you are quite right. Snape did not like or love Harry. But he did took into account that he was protecting Lily's son, he was doing it for her and there was a small of her on him. Not more than that. Snape utterly loathed Harry Potter.
teacakes wrote:
What did you think was the reason for his existence then? Have you ever loved? Caused the death of a loved one? I can understand that it is an obsession but that doesn't mean he never loved Lily. And how is he a one-dimensional wimp? He risked his life in a selfless way for selfish reasons.
As for the mistake I made, feel free to enlighten me.
The reason of his existence, sadly was only Lily, which for me, it's a downgrading thing. Yes I did love and no I never caused the death of a loved one, nor do you, I think so let's be happy about it. He did love, early in his Hogwarts years. It was quite saddening to see however, that he did not grow out of it and with the years, it only turned into an obcession. Suposedly, love does make us better persons and we learn from our mistakes. Dumbledore loved someone when he was very young, directly killed someone he loved too, lost his brother and the rest of his family, but he lived and, with other objectives in life, besides the guilt that he felt. Sirius 'killed' his best friend and wife and lived a life of utter guilt while in Azkaban. But he was able to live and have other objectives in life: kill Pettigrew (lol), protect his godson because his parents weren't there and being an active (sort of) member of the order. He had other objectives besides his guilt. There are other examples, not in Harry Potter, that use this recursing death of a loved one by their hands and their atonement. But while the all get other objectives learn from what they done, Snape doesn't. For me, he did not atone for what he did. _________________ beware the spelling
I remember J.K. Rowling said that even until the very end, Snape hated Harry. Personally I don't think he ever really cared about him, he only kept him safe for Lily.
I remember J.K. Rowling said that even until the very end, Snape hated Harry. Personally I don't think he ever really cared about him, he only kept him safe for Lily.
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