Okay a lot of people have been saying/implying that Snape "always" loved Harry deep down but I assumed he was talking about Lily.. here's the paragraph:
"'I have spied for you, and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe. Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter -'
'But this is touching Severus,' said Dumbledore seriously. 'Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?'
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: she landed on the office floor, bounded once accross the office and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
'After all this time?'
Always,' said Snape."
Points for the Lily argument:
He seemed defensive by shouting and emphasising the word "him" as if scornfully.
The doe is the same as Lily's.
The statement "After all this time?" could mean after all the years since Lily's death.
Points for the Harry argument:
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that. _________________
Hmm, well, I'd have to say now that he did feel something for Harry. But I would say only because he really loved Lily. _________________
^ HP Chat & Games
I remember J.K. Rowling said that even until the very end, Snape hated Harry. Personally I don't think he ever really cared about him, he only kept him safe for Lily.
I don't understand JK's prespective on this. I mean it is her story, but from what I took from it, is that Snape loved Harry just because he said that line,, that in the end he genuinely cared about it. And it makes sense that he threw out the patronus because he wanted to show DD that he didn't care because JK also makes it clear that Snape doens't like to show his good side...I don't know.. _________________
I think Snape only truly loved Lily. I think he grew to like Harry in the end, but that took awhile because he hated James so much and he saw a lot of James in Harry. If Harry wasn't Lily's son though, I don't think Snape would have ever liked him. (I had to use it) _________________
JKR said in one of her interviews that Snape only really loved Lily, he protected Harry because he was all that was left of Lily, but he did not love him. _________________ 12", Holly, Dragon Heartstring core
I don't think he loved Harry like he did Lilly, but he felt he needed to keep him safe because he saw Lilly in him and he didn't want Lilly to have died for no reason. _________________
Wand:8" Cedar with Unicorn Hair
Animagi:Squirrel
If Snape loved Harry then why was he so cruel to him and his friends?
When Snape says
Quote:
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
and then his patronus shot out a doe...
I took that to mean that he did not love Harry, he loved Lily.
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
But it doesn't. It means simply just that after all this time Snape still thinks about Lily.
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that.
DD told Snape to somehow get Harry's attention. He was still following DD's orders. Not beause he loves Harry, but because he feels he owes it to DD, who has helped him since he secretly turned his back on Voldemort. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
If Snape loved Harry then why was he so cruel to him and his friends?
When Snape says
Quote:
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
and then his patronus shot out a doe...
I took that to mean that he did not love Harry, he loved Lily.
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
But it doesn't. It means simply just that after all this time Snape still thinks about Lily.
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that.
DD told Snape to somehow get Harry's attention. He was still following DD's orders. Not beause he loves Harry, but because he feels he owes it to DD, who has helped him since he secretly turned his back on Voldemort.
To conclude that whatever Snape did for Harry was becasue of Dumbledore would be wrong. He did help Harry in the first year too before people knew Voldemort was back and before Dumbledore had any plans. Snape certainly did not love Harry, he had no reason to but he did not hate him either. He loved Lily and liked Harry. also he was a kind of person who could never show his affection.
Snape was never really cruel to Harry and his friends. I meaning docking some points off the team might matter to 12 year olds but how does it matter in the bigger picture? He never hurt them or got them in trouble unlike some of the other teachers.
If Snape loved Harry then why was he so cruel to him and his friends?
When Snape says
Quote:
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
and then his patronus shot out a doe...
I took that to mean that he did not love Harry, he loved Lily.
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
But it doesn't. It means simply just that after all this time Snape still thinks about Lily.
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that.
DD told Snape to somehow get Harry's attention. He was still following DD's orders. Not beause he loves Harry, but because he feels he owes it to DD, who has helped him since he secretly turned his back on Voldemort.
To conclude that whatever Snape did for Harry was becasue of Dumbledore would be wrong. He did help Harry in the first year too before people knew Voldemort was back and before Dumbledore had any plans. Snape certainly did not love Harry, he had no reason to but he did not hate him either. He loved Lily and liked Harry. also he was a kind of person who could never show his affection.
Snape was never really cruel to Harry and his friends. I meaning docking some points off the team might matter to 12 year olds but how does it matter in the bigger picture? He never hurt them or got them in trouble unlike some of the other teachers.
The comment he made to Hermione when her teeth were jinxed was outright cruel. He mae fun of Harry's father, calling him arrogant. You do not do that to a student, no matter what history you have with their parents.
What did the other teachers do to them that was so awful?
Quote:
He did help Harry in the first year too before people knew Voldemort was back and before Dumbledore had any plans.
And I never concluded that Snape Snape helped Harry in the beginning because of Voldemort or DD. He helped Harry in PS/SS because he owed a life debt to James.
Again, I refer you to a JKR quote from a few weeks ago..
Quote:
Greta, 8: If Snape didn't love Lily, would he have still tried to protect Harry?
Coolio, that sufficiently confirms in my mind that I was right to think he only meant Lily.
Also he probably never wanted to be a teacher and that's why he was so mean, he only took the job to protect Harry for Lily 'cause DD told him that's what he had to do. _________________
If Snape loved Harry then why was he so cruel to him and his friends?
When Snape says
Quote:
'For him?' Shouted Snape. 'Expecto Patronum!'
and then his patronus shot out a doe...
I took that to mean that he did not love Harry, he loved Lily.
"After all this time" could mean after all this time of him bullying and torturing Harry..
But it doesn't. It means simply just that after all this time Snape still thinks about Lily.
And I thought maybe I'd forgotten something about the patronus but it can't be because he used it helping Ron and Harry in the forest 'cause DD was dead long before that.
DD told Snape to somehow get Harry's attention. He was still following DD's orders. Not beause he loves Harry, but because he feels he owes it to DD, who has helped him since he secretly turned his back on Voldemort.
To conclude that whatever Snape did for Harry was becasue of Dumbledore would be wrong. He did help Harry in the first year too before people knew Voldemort was back and before Dumbledore had any plans. Snape certainly did not love Harry, he had no reason to but he did not hate him either. He loved Lily and liked Harry. also he was a kind of person who could never show his affection.
Snape was never really cruel to Harry and his friends. I meaning docking some points off the team might matter to 12 year olds but how does it matter in the bigger picture? He never hurt them or got them in trouble unlike some of the other teachers.
The comment he made to Hermione when her teeth were jinxed was outright cruel. He mae fun of Harry's father, calling him arrogant. You do not do that to a student, no matter what history you have with their parents.
What did the other teachers do to them that was so awful?
Quote:
He did help Harry in the first year too before people knew Voldemort was back and before Dumbledore had any plans.
And I never concluded that Snape Snape helped Harry in the beginning because of Voldemort or DD. He helped Harry in PS/SS because he owed a life debt to James.
Again, I refer you to a JKR quote from a few weeks ago..
Quote:
Greta, 8: If Snape didn't love Lily, would he have still tried to protect Harry?
Some good points. I personally think after all James did to Snape, he was entitled to let a bit of steam off at Harry. Remember what Hermione said about Sirius confusing Harry with James? Maybe Snape had the same problem.
By other teachers I meant teachers like Umbridge and Lockhart who could have caused him real harm. Also Hagrid unintentionaly put Harry in much more serious danger than just docking a few house points like Sanpe did.
Ok, so we conclude that Snape had no love lost for Harry. ok, so what? Does that make Snape mean? Why SHOULd he have any liking for Harry? Just because he was the hero of the story? All the people who loved Harry, be it Hagrid, the Weaselys, Sirius, Lupin all did it because they had known James and Harry was James's son. No one did it because of any lofty ideals(except maybe Dumbledore). Everyone liked Harry for very personal reasons. Why single out Snape saying he did so and so only for the love of lily?
Some good points. I personally think after all James did to Snape, he was entitled to let a bit of steam off at Harry. Remember what Hermione said about Sirius confusing Harry with James? Maybe Snape had the same problem.
Snape was supposed to be the adult and the teacher. Instead he acted like an immature bully on a power trip. Sirius missed James and was hoping to have the same bond with Harry. Snape's action were pure malice.
Quote:
By other teachers I meant teachers like Umbridge and Lockhart who could have caused him real harm. Also Hagrid unintentionaly put Harry in much more serious danger than just docking a few house points like Sanpe did.
I thought you meant McGonagall or Flitwick, lol. As you said what Hagrid did was unintentional. But at least hagrid cared about Harry. So it's easy to forgive Hagrid because we know his intentions were always good. Prof Sprout also had very dangerous plants, but she would never actually hurt any of the students on purpose.
Quote:
Ok, so we conclude that Snape had no love lost for Harry. ok, so what? Does that make Snape mean?
Yes, Snape was very cruel. He said horrible things to Hermione that was unprovoked. As JKR said, he was a bully.
Quote:
Why SHOULd he have any liking for Harry? Just because he was the hero of the story? All the people who loved Harry, be it Hagrid, the Weaselys, Sirius, Lupin all did it because they had known James and Harry was James's son. No one did it because of any lofty ideals(except maybe Dumbledore). Everyone liked Harry for very personal reasons. Why single out Snape saying he did so and so only for the love of lily?
Snape didn't have to like Harry. But he shouldn't have been so cruel, not towards just Harry but to all students who aren't Slytherin. Everyone else liked Harry, whether it was because of James or because of a different reason. In the first book when Molly was told the boy was Harry Potter she comments how polite he was. People did like him. Not everyone, but people who got to know him seemed to. Snape didn't even try. Did he have to like Harry? No, of course not. But to dismiss him because of a 20 year old grudge against the kid's father? It's unecassary. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
Some good points. I personally think after all James did to Snape, he was entitled to let a bit of steam off at Harry. Remember what Hermione said about Sirius confusing Harry with James? Maybe Snape had the same problem.
Snape was supposed to be the adult and the teacher. Instead he acted like an immature bully on a power trip. Sirius missed James and was hoping to have the same bond with Harry. Snape's action were pure malice.
Quote:
By other teachers I meant teachers like Umbridge and Lockhart who could have caused him real harm. Also Hagrid unintentionaly put Harry in much more serious danger than just docking a few house points like Sanpe did.
I thought you meant McGonagall or Flitwick, lol. As you said what Hagrid did was unintentional. But at least hagrid cared about Harry. So it's easy to forgive Hagrid because we know his intentions were always good. Prof Sprout also had very dangerous plants, but she would never actually hurt any of the students on purpose.
Quote:
Ok, so we conclude that Snape had no love lost for Harry. ok, so what? Does that make Snape mean?
Yes, Snape was very cruel. He said horrible things to Hermione that was unprovoked. As JKR said, he was a bully.
Quote:
Why SHOULd he have any liking for Harry? Just because he was the hero of the story? All the people who loved Harry, be it Hagrid, the Weaselys, Sirius, Lupin all did it because they had known James and Harry was James's son. No one did it because of any lofty ideals(except maybe Dumbledore). Everyone liked Harry for very personal reasons. Why single out Snape saying he did so and so only for the love of lily?
Snape didn't have to like Harry. But he shouldn't have been so cruel, not towards just Harry but to all students who aren't Slytherin. Everyone else liked Harry, whether it was because of James or because of a different reason. In the first book when Molly was told the boy was Harry Potter she comments how polite he was. People did like him. Not everyone, but people who got to know him seemed to. Snape didn't even try. Did he have to like Harry? No, of course not. But to dismiss him because of a 20 year old grudge against the kid's father? It's unecassary.
How deep snape's hurt was to cause him to hurt someone just becasue he is his enemy's son, can only be known by Snape. I thought that he bullied Hermione and Ron only because they were Harry's friend but then he bullied Neville too, cruelly. so maybe you are right. But that will not stop me from liking Snape lol
Some good points. I personally think after all James did to Snape, he was entitled to let a bit of steam off at Harry. Remember what Hermione said about Sirius confusing Harry with James? Maybe Snape had the same problem.
Snape was supposed to be the adult and the teacher. Instead he acted like an immature bully on a power trip. Sirius missed James and was hoping to have the same bond with Harry. Snape's action were pure malice.
Quote:
By other teachers I meant teachers like Umbridge and Lockhart who could have caused him real harm. Also Hagrid unintentionaly put Harry in much more serious danger than just docking a few house points like Sanpe did.
I thought you meant McGonagall or Flitwick, lol. As you said what Hagrid did was unintentional. But at least hagrid cared about Harry. So it's easy to forgive Hagrid because we know his intentions were always good. Prof Sprout also had very dangerous plants, but she would never actually hurt any of the students on purpose.
Quote:
Ok, so we conclude that Snape had no love lost for Harry. ok, so what? Does that make Snape mean?
Yes, Snape was very cruel. He said horrible things to Hermione that was unprovoked. As JKR said, he was a bully.
Quote:
Why SHOULd he have any liking for Harry? Just because he was the hero of the story? All the people who loved Harry, be it Hagrid, the Weaselys, Sirius, Lupin all did it because they had known James and Harry was James's son. No one did it because of any lofty ideals(except maybe Dumbledore). Everyone liked Harry for very personal reasons. Why single out Snape saying he did so and so only for the love of lily?
Snape didn't have to like Harry. But he shouldn't have been so cruel, not towards just Harry but to all students who aren't Slytherin. Everyone else liked Harry, whether it was because of James or because of a different reason. In the first book when Molly was told the boy was Harry Potter she comments how polite he was. People did like him. Not everyone, but people who got to know him seemed to. Snape didn't even try. Did he have to like Harry? No, of course not. But to dismiss him because of a 20 year old grudge against the kid's father? It's unecassary.
How deep snape's hurt was to cause him to hurt someone just becasue he is his enemy's son, can only be known by Snape. I thought that he bullied Hermione and Ron only because they were Harry's friend but then he bullied Neville too, cruelly. so maybe you are right. But that will not stop me from liking Snape lol
Don't get me wrong, in many ways I like Snape, too. Well, not so much Snape, but his character. He could be the poster child for kids who get screwed and then make even more screwed up decisions. His father was obviously abusive, if not to him than to his mother. Somehow this led him to messed up views on muggles and muggle-borns. Meeting Lily shook up his mind because it caused him to question everything he thought was to be true about muggles and muggle-borns. Then when he gets to school he has to struggle with what he thinks might be right and what he's told is right. He chooses the wrong path and he was never able to fully find his way back again.
If I could say one thing to Snape it would be, "Get over it." I understand that he was hurt and emotionally devastated. Who among us hasn't been down there? But instead of living he chose the darkest route possible. If he was one of my friends I wouldn't have let him sink so low in despair. But he chose friends who were not exactly supportive of him. He chose the dark side and was never able to see the light again. I don't feel sorry for him, but I do feel bad for him. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
^ Ha! You've been as hurt and emotionally devastated as Snape? So you're the reason the only person in the world you ever loved is dead? _________________
^ Ha! You've been as hurt and emotionally devastated as Snape? So you're the reason the only person in the world you ever loved is dead?
Whoa, calm yourself down. He made the choice to hang around death eaters way before Lily died. His choice is what led to Lily's death. At no point does that give him the right to be mean to her son. Or to anybody, for that matter. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
^ Ha! You've been as hurt and emotionally devastated as Snape? So you're the reason the only person in the world you ever loved is dead?
Whoa, calm yourself down. He made the choice to hang around death eaters way before Lily died. His choice is what led to Lily's death. At no point does that give him the right to be mean to her son. Or to anybody, for that matter.
I was calm, I just thought the comparison was actually rather funny.
The fact that it was his choices makes it even harder, he never meant for her to be harmed but, as a result of his forementioned choices, it did. As for him being mean, it's not about rights. He was mean and spiteful and shoudln't have been a teacher, he could have tought them all his little secrets and given them advice but he doesn't because he's in a job he didnt want, he was put there by DD to be protected and to protect Harry, which he did. There are plenty of mean people and most people are mean at some point and a lot of time it's to the people they care most about, like Snape calling Lily 'mudblood'. It's not justifiable but it's a reality and doesn't make someone bad. _________________
I don't think he loved Harry like he did Lilly, but he felt he needed to keep him safe because he saw Lilly in him and he didn't want Lilly to have died for no reason.
agreed. snape clearly fucks up again and again with lily and harry is the son of the guy who used ot mock him constantly and the girl he could never have (but almost did i guess if he wasnt such a prat)
anyway cuz of his own doing the girl he loves died so it would make sense why he hated harry and messed around wiht him throughtout his 6 years there.
as for the slaughter line, snape did protect him since book 1, maybe he was like "i protected lily's son for so long now u want to send him to die. " perhaps he was htinking wat lily woudl think?
its funny but in the end i think snape turned out to be my favorite chrctr.
^ Ha! You've been as hurt and emotionally devastated as Snape? So you're the reason the only person in the world you ever loved is dead?
Whoa, calm yourself down. He made the choice to hang around death eaters way before Lily died. His choice is what led to Lily's death. At no point does that give him the right to be mean to her son. Or to anybody, for that matter.
i tihnk its unavoidable. i htink harry being alive was a constant reminder to snape that lily was dead, that he caused her death, that he never got the girl, even though he was tryign since he was a young blood. it reminded him of his failures. thatl piss anyone off. espcecially someone liek snape who w
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