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halfbloodprincess
Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Location: Forever with Erik
Posts: 28287
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 Posted: May 10, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Through the Trapdoor - an ounce of logic with the potions |
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Remember Snape's obstacle to the stone? Here's the poem:
Danger lies before you, while safety lies behind,
Two of us will help you, whichever you would find.
One among us seven will let you move ahead,
Another will transport the drinker back instead,
Two among our number hold only nettle wine,
Three of us are killers, waiting hidden in line.
Choose, unless you wish to stay here forevermore,
To help you in your choice, we give you these clues four:
First, however slyly the poison tries to hide
You will always find some on nettle wine's left side;
Second, different are those who stand at either end,
But if you would move onward, neither is your friend;
Third, as you see clearly, all are different size,
Neither dwarf nor giant holds death in their insides;
Fourth, the second left and the second right
Are twins once you tase them, though different at first sight.
can you figure out what the potions are?
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halfbloodprincess
Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Location: Forever with Erik
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| Posted: May 10, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I got it!
TWO OF US WILL HELP YOU, WHICHEVER YOU WILL FIND
these two are:
1. that which will let you move ahead
2. that which will transport you back instead
TWO AMONG OUR NUMBER HOLD ONLY NETTLE WINE
easy enough. there are two bottles which hold nettle wine
FOURTH, THE SECOND LEFT AND THE SECOND RIGHT
ARE TWINS ONCE YOU TASTE THEM, THOUGH DIFFERENT AT FIRST SIGHT.
So the second left and second on the right are nettle wine
THREE OF US ARE KILLERS, WAITING HIDDEN IN LINE
Easy enough, three bottles contain poison
YOU WILL ALWAYS FIND SOME ON NETTLE WINE'S LEFT SIDE
So the first bottle on the left, and the fifth bottle, are poison. No clue as to what the third is.
DIFFERENT ARE THOSE WHO STAND AT EITHER END
If the first bottle is poison, the last must be something else.
It is not nettle wine, because nettle wine is second left and second right.
It is not that which will take you forward, because...
BUT IF YOU WOULD MOVE FORWARD, NEITHER IS YOUR FRIEND
So i can only conclude that the last bottle takes you backward
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE COME UP WITH
1st left: poison
2nd: nettle wine
3rd:
4th:
5th: poison
6th: nettle wine
7th: transports drinker backward.
If either the third or fourth bottle is the largest or smallest bottle, then that is the one which is not poison, because...
NEITHER DWARF NOR GIANT HOLDS DEATH IN THEIR INSIDES.
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I am neo the one
Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 35
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| Posted: August 21, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| ya i was pissed that they left this part out of the movie |
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Kino
Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 7958
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| Posted: August 21, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah i remember that.
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GinnyX
Joined: May 6, 2007
Location: I'm in a New York state of mind.
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| Posted: August 21, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: |
GinnyX
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I hated they left that out because that was what Hermione was suposed to get the House points for. Not the Devil's Snare. In the book she panics... which s more like her characters in beginning of the series. Why must the film makers hate me so much?
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Simplicity_
Joined: Nov 8, 2007
Location: Wpg, Canada
Posts: 202
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| Posted: November 10, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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lol when i first read the little riddle, i had no clue what was what, i just left it out because i knew they were going to solve it. but i still have no idea what you guys were saying when you said you solved it.
but they did leave it out from the movie which was a big disappointment,
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treehugger14
Joined: Oct 7, 2007
Location: See Wacky Macky's Location
Posts: 9744
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| Posted: November 11, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I tried to do it on my own before she figured it out once and I actually got it. I checked my answer in the book by WWP. And I was right. I felt so special. Though I had to have paper to do it though...
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Auror Monroe
Joined: Oct 2, 2007
Location: Ministry of Magic - Level 2: Auror Headquarters
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| Posted: November 11, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I too wish they would have left this part in the movie because I thought it was a better show of Hermione's talents.
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halfbloodprincess
Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Location: Forever with Erik
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| Posted: November 14, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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grrr... films always leave out so much.
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zengrenouille
Joined: Aug 1, 2007
Location: Sharon, PA
Posts: 10271
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| Posted: November 18, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
I got it!
TWO OF US WILL HELP YOU, WHICHEVER YOU WILL FIND
these two are:
1. that which will let you move ahead
2. that which will transport you back instead
TWO AMONG OUR NUMBER HOLD ONLY NETTLE WINE
easy enough. there are two bottles which hold nettle wine
FOURTH, THE SECOND LEFT AND THE SECOND RIGHT
ARE TWINS ONCE YOU TASTE THEM, THOUGH DIFFERENT AT FIRST SIGHT.
So the second left and second on the right are nettle wine
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These two don't necessarily have to be the nettle wine. They could be poison.
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halfbloodprincess
Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Location: Forever with Erik
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| Posted: November 18, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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i realized that. but well, chances might be greater that theyre both nettle wine. i dont see how hermione could have solved it if snape never mentioned that two of the poisons were identical.
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zengrenouille
Joined: Aug 1, 2007
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| Posted: November 20, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that it would have been any more difficult if those two were nettle wine or poison. It says that they are not identicle. They do not look alike, but they are the same thing. That sounds more like poison to me. How many poisons are there? Two things ca be unidenticle and still be poison. Besides, we can't tell how difficult it is withought knowing which one is the largest and which one is the smallest. On top of all of that, why wouldn't Snape make the riddle EXTREMELY difficult. It was guarding the philosopher's stone.
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halfbloodprincess
Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Location: Forever with Erik
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| Posted: November 22, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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oh well, whatever. we may never know. just find out. unless jkr shoves a picture of the bottles underneath your nose.
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bcarlos18
Joined: May 26, 2008
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| Posted: May 26, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| i think thye left out this part because they didnt think it was exciting enough?? |
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kwidditch
Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 359
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| Posted: May 26, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| zengrenouille wrote: |
| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
I got it!
TWO OF US WILL HELP YOU, WHICHEVER YOU WILL FIND
these two are:
1. that which will let you move ahead
2. that which will transport you back instead
TWO AMONG OUR NUMBER HOLD ONLY NETTLE WINE
easy enough. there are two bottles which hold nettle wine
FOURTH, THE SECOND LEFT AND THE SECOND RIGHT
ARE TWINS ONCE YOU TASTE THEM, THOUGH DIFFERENT AT FIRST SIGHT.
So the second left and second on the right are nettle wine
|
These two don't necessarily have to be the nettle wine. They could be poison. |
They can't be poison. If they were poison, there would be no way for both wines to be on poison's right side ("First, however slyly the poison tries to hide, you will always find some on nettle wine's left side"), and for the first not to be the one which takes you forward. Try it out on paper, it's impossible (I did it myself when reading it for the first time, like 9 years ago or so).
There are only two possible answers, which would be rounded to one if we knew what size each one was. They are (left to right):
1. poison
2. wine
3. forward
4. poison
5. poison
6. wine
7. backward
or:
1. poison
2. wine
3. poison
4. forward
5. poison
6. wine
7. backward
Depending on whether the smallest bottle is 3 or 4 ("Neither dwarf nor giant holds death in their insides").
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zengrenouille
Joined: Aug 1, 2007
Location: Sharon, PA
Posts: 10271
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| Posted: May 26, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kwidditch wrote: |
| zengrenouille wrote: |
| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
I got it!
TWO OF US WILL HELP YOU, WHICHEVER YOU WILL FIND
these two are:
1. that which will let you move ahead
2. that which will transport you back instead
TWO AMONG OUR NUMBER HOLD ONLY NETTLE WINE
easy enough. there are two bottles which hold nettle wine
FOURTH, THE SECOND LEFT AND THE SECOND RIGHT
ARE TWINS ONCE YOU TASTE THEM, THOUGH DIFFERENT AT FIRST SIGHT.
So the second left and second on the right are nettle wine
|
These two don't necessarily have to be the nettle wine. They could be poison. |
They can't be poison. If they were poison, there would be no way for both wines to be on poison's right side ("First, however slyly the poison tries to hide, you will always find some on nettle wine's left side"), and for the first not to be the one which takes you forward. Try it out on paper, it's impossible (I did it myself when reading it for the first time, like 9 years ago or so).
There are only two possible answers, which would be rounded to one if we knew what size each one was. They are (left to right):
1. poison
2. wine
3. forward
4. poison
5. poison
6. wine
7. backward
or:
1. poison
2. wine
3. poison
4. forward
5. poison
6. wine
7. backward
Depending on whether the smallest bottle is 3 or 4 ("Neither dwarf nor giant holds death in their insides"). |
The onely reason that we can even draw the conclusion that those are the only two possibilities is because Hermione said that the seventh one is the potion that carries a person backwards, which not one person on this thread mentioned. HBP was going strictly off of the riddle, and if we go by the riddle, then there are 8 possibilities. 6 of these 8 possibilities put poison in the 2nd and 6th spots. I referred to the lexicon, and I did it on paper.
I didn't reread that passage from the book when I did the factoring, so I didn't realize that Hermione said that until after I did the factoring. Coincidentally, I didn't even do the factoring until forlong made a quiz insisting that it could be determined exactly the order of the bottles based upon what is in the books. Once you factor in the fact that Hermione said that the potion sending the drinker back. So how the hell did you come to you conclusion without knowing that the seventh bottle was the last one? It's impossible.
Based on the riddle presented in this thread, it can only be narrower down to eight possibilities.
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-potionriddle.html
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kwidditch
Joined: Feb 7, 2008
Location: NYC
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| Posted: May 27, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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You're quite right, of course. I was assuming the discussion here was about what the actual conclusion was, not how the logic puzzle is figured out, since its impossible to attain a precise solution without knowing the size of the bottles.
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zengrenouille
Joined: Aug 1, 2007
Location: Sharon, PA
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| Posted: May 27, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| kwidditch wrote: |
| You're quite right, of course. I was assuming the discussion here was about what the actual conclusion was, not how the logic puzzle is figured out, since its impossible to attain a precise solution without knowing the size of the bottles. |
Well, even without knowing the sized, we can narrow it down to two based on the clues given AND the fact that Hermione said the one at the end sends the drinker back. Without that bit of information, though, there are 8 possible solutions. Too bad Jo didn't tell Grandpre the order and sizes and have her draw that for the opening chapter picture. Then we would all know the answer.
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Isabelle Lestrange
Joined: Jan 24, 2008
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| Posted: May 29, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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The most devasting part of the movie was not seeing the potion part in the Through The Trapdoor part, how on earth could they leave it out? It was a signifigent part and shouldn't have been cut.
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ThE_DaRk_MaRk
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| Posted: June 3, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
ThE_DaRk_MaRk
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| GinnyX wrote: |
| I hated they left that out because that was what Hermione was suposed to get the House points for. Not the Devil's Snare. In the book she panics... which s more like her characters in beginning of the series. Why must the film makers hate me so much? |
I had seen the movie first so when I read the book after wards I thought to myself..."They left a lot of stuff out."
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Isabelle Lestrange
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| Posted: June 3, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Making me dissapointed, one of my favourite classes or things cut out of the movie, I was dissapointed!
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King818
Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: June 8, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I'd probably just gulp down a random one and hope for the best. |
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loony luna lovegood
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
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| Posted: June 8, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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that was a good part.
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The Chickmagnet
Joined: Aug 31, 2007
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: June 11, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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