Harry Potter Forums

Posts: 2391 · Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 2391

I’ve seen all the episodes of DB, Z, and the crap that was GT. In the Manga he doesn’t argue with Piccolo that long. He says he’s stronger than Buu and flies off, that wouldn’t take over 2 minutes. If you had read the manga, you know the official source you’d know that he didn’t waste his time doing half of that crap, at tops all his stunts would take 4 minutes. If Gotenks was actually napping for a long time Piccolo wouldn’t have easily found him, all he has to do is focus on Gotenks Ki which shouldn’t have been too hard since it was greater than his own. Can’t detect his power levels from great distances? People on New Namek could sense Cell’s power level, King Kai could sense Frieza’s PL when he wasn’t anywhere on Namek. Goku could sense Cold’s and Frieza’s PL while not even on Earth. So yeah, can’t detect someone’s Ki from long distances…

Trunks still didn’t get to Bulma’s house at capsule corps in less than a second. It sill proves he couldn’t move at light speeds, proves my point that DBZ characters don’t move at light speeds. And you still haven’t explained to me why it takes more than a second for Gotenks to reach Buu. Trunks thought he knew where he radar was, still took more than a second to get to his destination. Even after coming out of the HyperBolic Time Chamber Future Trunks and Vegeta still don’t reach Cell in less than a second. When Trunks tell Kuririn to get Vegeta out of the battlefield after he gets the crap beaten out of him by Perfect Cell, Kuririn doesn’t reach his destination in less than one second. After Trunks is told of the Cell games by Cell he rushes to inform the others, still doesn’t get to his destination in less than a second. After teleported Earth by Kibito Gohan flies as fast as he can to reach Piccolo and Gotenks but still doesn’t get there in less than a second. DBZ characters can’t move at light speeds.

Can’t read Japanese eh? Couldn’t even find someone to translate for you? I get different people to translate for me to just to make sure there’s nothing wrong with the translation the first guy game me. Back in Australia when I was there DBZ was huge, it was like the next Pokemon. So I didn’t really have a hard time finding any of the official Manga volumes and finding people willing to translate and then going online and checking it up with Otaku’s just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. Did you ever watch the original Dragonball series? You tell me that characters then were exceeding 100 tons when they were not but I got to ask. Have you watched Dragonball? Not Dragonball Z, but Dragonball? Have you at least read the translated manga? At leas then you’d be able to tell the difference between what’s cannon and what’s filler. The events in the anime are cannon unless they don’t happen in the manga or are different in the manga.

Doesn’t matter if the anime isn’t fully fan dubbed since it’s not the official cannon source. Did you happen to ignore all the dub errors? Raditz moving faster than light, Snake Way only been 10,000 miles long, the legend of the SSJ that one only appears every 3000 years is actually 1000 years in the original version. Another inconsistency in the anime is when Cell created 7 Cell Juniors, Gohan destroys 8. Did you happen to ignore all the fillers and dub errors I pointed out? Toei added in some fillers for the anime changing some stuff and putting stuff that wasn’t in the original manga, Funimation changed even more when they started broadcasting it in English.

So you watched an episode again, good for you since you enjoy the show so much. What happens in the anime doesn’t mean anything if it’s different from the manga. Goku at base can handle 40 tons on each limb, stated in the Manga and by AT himself. Goku is seen training with 40 tons on each limb, that’s the maximum weight he can handle while in his base form.
Cell was at full power, the Manga says it all, he was testing his full power.When he destroyed the smaller asteroids he was only messing around but got more serious when he destroyed the bigger one. Can’t really remember then saying it was twice the size of the moon, can you post exactly when that is stated? But let’s at least take into consideration that he becomes even stronger when he comes back from Kai’s planet. So Super Perfect Cell is capable of destroying more than an asteroid the size of the moon while at full power. Still doesn’t compare with Hulk destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth with one punch, the same Hulk that is weaker than Supes.

Oh dude! You’re going by the Justice League cartoon? The cartoon that isn’t cannon? It’s the comics that are cannon; we’re talking about the official Superman not the animated one. But I’ll clear things up anyway despite it been not relevant to the topic at hand. Just remember that the animated versions of the characters are much weaker than their comic book counter-parts.

1.The only episode where Batman took down Grundy was episode 14. Didn’t land a punch or kick on Grundy, he electrocuted the guy with a batarang that Grundy caught. After that Batman got beat down by an Amazonian.

2.In episode 18 Grundy was damaging Superman but at the end of 19 Superman took him down easily. I believe this was Superman’s first encounter with Grundy in JL the animated series.

3.In episode 41 Grundy attacked Superman while he was trying to talk to him, then Superman punched him back and said “Don’t make me do this”, Grundy then suplexed Superman and held on, then Superman said “last chance”, Gundy didn’t listen so Supes took him out. Only needed to use 2 attacks in the whole fight. After that fight he knocked out Aquaman with one punch. In episode 42 Grundy dies as a good guy.

4.Grundy returns in episode 61 when he was accidentally revived by some magicians, using this magic resurrected Grundy without his mind, he was just body full of rage and powered by powerful magic. Superman is somewhat vulnerable to magic. Things got even worse when Amazo accidentally made the mindless Grundy even more powerful. Shayera makes her return and defeats Grundy as her mace negates the effects of magic.

See where you went wrong? Batman didn’t kick Grundy or punch him; he avoided Grundy’s blows and electrocuted him. In fact during the entire run of JLU I don’t remember one instance where Batman landed a punch or kick on Grundy. At the end of episode 19 Superman slapped around Grundy like he was nothing. Then Superman took him down with 4 attacks in episode 41.

2:32 of episode 14, Grundy runs at Batman right after Batman had deflected one of Star Sapphire’s blasts right back at her. Grundy throws a punch and Batman ducks, Grundy tries somewhat of an uppercut maneuver and Batman ducks one come more still holding the mirror he used to deflect Star Sapphire’s blast. The next punch Batman barely dodges and puts the mirror in the way of Grundy’s fist, Grundy punches right through it and isn’t harmed it’s still attached to his hand. Grundy pulls another punch with his other hand and Batman dodges once more and moves a little distance away from Grundy. By 2:38 Grundy is running at Batman again, this time Batman quickly dispatches a batarang which Grundy easily catches with one hand, he clenches his fist and is electrocuted by 2:40 and falls back. Batman didn’t throw any punches or kicks at Grundy so I don’t know why you even said Batman took Grundy down with kicks or punches. This is the first appearance of Grundy in JLU, so I don’t know how you got Superman fighting Grundy in a previous episode. Also Superman does not fight Grundy in this episode.

By 14: 06 of episode 18 Superman is beating up the Ultra-Humanite, by 14:15 Grundy makes a surprise attack on GL, Superman is manhandling the Ultra-Humanite until he turns around to see what happened to GL at 14:19, he is about to help him but Star Sapphire attacks him from behind while his guard is down at 14:27, her powers are magical in nature as they are derived from the stone on her mask. Superman is up again at 14:40 while Batman was fighting Cheetah and Copperhead. Grundy attacks him as soon as he gets up and continues to do so until 14:59. That is when Hawkgirl shows up and smashes him with her mace. Superman gets up again at 15:04. By 17:30 the villains make their escape thanks to Shade, they had to retreat because the League was winning. During that entire encounter Batman didn’t even attempt to fight Grundy.

I’m treating episode 19 as part of 18 since it’s a direct continuation. By 38:38 of episode 18 (though it’s actually episode 19) the League attack Luther’s hideout. At 38: 50 Superman flies into Grundy, taking him right through a wall. At this time the scene switches to Wonder Woman fighting Joker and Shade she takes Shade down but catches an explosive doll from the Joker unaware that it would self destruct. At 39: 24 Superman is still pushing around Grundy and goes right through another wall and passes the Joker who then loses his balance. Then Supes slams Grundy against a staircase and lets go, Grundy gets up and delivers a punch witch Superman dodges and counters with a punch of his own connected with a fist to the gut and then a punch to the face. Grundy get slammed against a display statue which is knocked down, Grundy picks it up and throws it at Superman who breaks it in half with one punch, one half of the statue hits Star Sapphire who was fighting GL. By 39:57 Superman is once again just punching Grundy, who doesn’t even have time to counter; Superman takes Grundy through another wall and takes him out.

Episode 41, 15:34. Superman, WW, and Hawkgirl come to “save” Grundy as it seems as if Dr. Fate was killing him. Grundy attacks Superman, Aquaman takes on Wonder Woman while Hawkgirl takes on Dr. Fate. Dr. Fate quickly teleports Superman/Grundy and Wonder Woman/Aquaman to different locations. After been teleported Superman asks Grundy questions without attacking him or even getting ready to do so. Superman: “I was trying to help you”. Grundy then punches Superman; Superman then punches Grundy back and sends him going quite a distance. Grundy gets up and attacks Superman twice with a pillar, then throws a huge boulder at Superman who flies right through it and punches Grundy and knocks him down. “I’m not here to hurt you Grundy, give up”, after this Supes is listening to Grundy speak when Grundy delivers another punch. Superman flies right back at Grundy and stops his next punch and punches Grundy back and says “Don’t make me do this”. Grundy suplexes Superman and holds on to him, Superman tells Grundy it’s his last chance but Grundy doesn’t listen so Superman takes him out with his next attack. Grundy is taken out by 4 of Superman’s attacks. Meanwhile Aquaman had defeated WW, he runs into Superman carrying Grundy. Superman asks Aquaman to tell him what’s going on, and Aquaman makes some lame threat like “I’ll explain it to your grieving family!” He then leaps at Superman who sighs and takes him out with one punch. At the end of the episode both sides team up and Grundy dies in the next episode.

When a mindless Grundy is resurrected with chaos magic in episode 63, Batman doesn’t even appear. So where did you see Batman punching and kicking Grundy? Only Grundy powered by magic has ever shown to be a match for Superman in the JLU animated series. Regular Grundy gets beat down.

None of that really matters though since the cartoon isn’t cannon; it’s like you using non cannon instances from the Dragonball Z anime. How about I bring in other non-cannon Supermen? Like Pre-Crisis Superman who destroys solar systems with his sneeze without even trying, moves like 10 planets effortlessly as a young boy and then juggles planets, uses black holes as transportations, plays catch with the moon, goes trillions of miles a second, moves several light-years in seconds, can see from one side of the Universe to the other, had the sword of Superman that could do anything, was a freaking genius, could travel through time at will, moved planets with his breath, almost outflew the barrier of creation… Yeah, I’d just love to bring in non cannon Supermen but I got to make this fair, right?

Post-Crisis Grundy is actually stronger than Pre-Crisis Grundy depending on his incarnation . Each incarnation of Grundy varies in strength; some versions are a match for Superman while others are punked by Batman. But like I said before Bats didn’t even try to punch or kick during the entire run of JLU. The only Grundy that was beating on Superman in JLU was the mindless Grundy infused with large amounts of Chaos magic and then accidentally made even more powerful by Amazo.

Trunks didn’t have trouble with Frieza, and he didn’t have any trouble with King Cold. They were nothing to him. Both of them got owned, Frieza got cut into little pieces and Cold was taken out with one blast and then killed by Trunks. Cold is stronger than Frieza, he even complains about how long it takes his son to finish his fights. The guy even asks Trunks to replace Frieza but we all know how that ended. After referring to Frieza’s Ki “and one greater" is what is said in the original manga (Dragon Ball #329).

Anyway back to Grundy. Grundy is a god damn powerhouse when powered by magic, he can solo the entire JLA depending on the members. Of course Superman becomes stronger depending on how he’s dealing with his metal blocks. I’ve already stated this in my previous post.

I also pretty much proved that DBZ characters don’t go at light speeds and any instance that seems to be so is the result of a dub error BUT even if Gotenks did go around the world 36 times in less than a second he’s still slower than Superman and Goku isn’t that much faster than Gotenks and is much slower than Superman.

Gohan even says that it takes 20 minutes for him to reach his school alone. Yeah, DBZ characters sure can exceed light speed.

Post-Crisis Superman at the beginning of his career was physically more powerful than any form of Goku, by 03 he had gotten an absolutely huge upgrade. Superman is also much faster than Goku, going at least 16 times the speed of light and probably faster when he took Darkseid to the Sun in mere seconds. 16 times the speed of light would mean that Superman can go around the Earth around 112 times in less than a second. And when he took Darkseid to the Sun he was most likely going even faster, took him there him there in mere seconds. During his fight with Wonder Woman they went to the Sun and back, the whole fight lasted only 1 minute and 57 seconds. Superman beats Goku in stamina, he’s fought for days and even weeks at any level he wants, Goku at SSJ3 lasts around an hour. Superman is more durable, he takes planet destroying attacks without any problems, and Cell killed Goku with an explosion that would destroy the Earth. Superman is smarter, able to do millions (or was it billions) of calculations a second. He can run through more logical scenarios than almost anyone else. Superman has more experience, having been caught in that time warp with WW where he ended a 10,000 year war. So yeah, Superman beats Goku in every category. There’s nothing Goku can do to Superman, simple as that.
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Ron is a racist

Posts: 267 · Joined: Nov 14, 2005 Posts: 267

Ok dude, if the anime isnt cannon then i dont know anything about the original Goku.
So i guess you won the arguement that Superman is stronger than Goku. Sad