I am a democrat, who originally wanted to vote for Obama, however recent activities have really changed my mind...
Everybody is for 'going green' and prevent global warning and increase the price of oil to make gas 8 dollars a gallon, and getting Hybrid cars.... Yes, that's all well and good but what about those who cannot afford a hybrid car??? Those of us who can't afford to live if we pay 8$ a gallon for gas...
Why is it, the democrats who used to look after the lower class, now look after the middle class and say to hell with the rest of us?
You know, it's really easy to say 'GO OUT AND BUY A HYBRID' and 'IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR A WHILE' (John Kerry) when you already have millions of dollars in the bank.... But the rest of us still need to survive... The rest of us still need to be able to afford gas to goto our dead end jobs, and we cannot do that when we pay more money in gas than we are making a week...
Why are they trying to kill America? _________________
These same people who say "GO GREEN" are the same idiots who got us in this position in the first place. The middle east and parts of South America will always have more oil than us - but we really have no idea how much oil our own country can even produce. Why? Because oil companies can't even prospect on potentially oil rich land because of the idiot environmentalists who think it will ruin our environment. They won't even let companies build REFINERIES.
Simple economics.
The price is high because demand exceeds supply.
How do we get more supply of gas? Build more refineries and search for oil in Alaska, where no one lives anyways.
Hell, there's still plenty of oil fields in Texas too and many other states. I saw on the news this one guy in Indiana who put an oil well in his back yard and was making close to $400 a day because he could make 3 barrels of oil in one day. His investment was $100,000 and he's already close to paying it off and making a clean profit. He found out his back yard was sitting on an abandoned oil field that was used back in the 20s.
We have oil. We just need to push the idiots aside who say we shouldn't "ruin the environment" to get to it. Mining does way worse to the environment than oil drilling. _________________
^ HP Chat & Games
I am a democrat, who originally wanted to vote for Obama, however recent activities have really changed my mind...
Seeing as you're only 16 posts into this forum, I'm not sure if I should label you as a troll or not. From the looks of it, you're pretending to be liberal to try and gain credibility, and then trying to shed doubt on liberal policies. From the few posts of yours I've seen, these arguments are all fallacious.
Cigaro wrote:
Everybody is for 'going green' and prevent global warning and increase the price of oil to make gas 8 dollars a gallon, and getting Hybrid cars.... Yes, that's all well and good but what about those who cannot afford a hybrid car??? Those of us who can't afford to live if we pay 8$ a gallon for gas...
1. Hydrogen powered (not hybrid) cars are what we're looking at, and they won't be much more expensive than the cars on the market right now.
2. Even if you can't afford a new car, the price of gas will DROP. Supply and demand, dude. If everyone else is using hydrogen cars, then nobody will be buying gas. If nobody buys gas, demand decreases, thus prices decrease.
Cigaro wrote:
Why is it, the democrats who used to look after the lower class, now look after the middle class and say to hell with the rest of us?
They are looking after the lower class. They're looking after anybody and everybody who makes less than $100,000 a year.
Cigaro wrote:
You know, it's really easy to say 'GO OUT AND BUY A HYBRID' and 'IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR A WHILE' (John Kerry) when you already have millions of dollars in the bank.... But the rest of us still need to survive... The rest of us still need to be able to afford gas to goto our dead end jobs, and we cannot do that when we pay more money in gas than we are making a week...
8 years ago, this country was rich. Our economy was as thriving as it had ever been, and the class-gap was quite narrow. After G.W. frauded his way into the Oval Office things have spiraled out of control. We invaded a country with no valid reason to, gas prices shot up, the economy spiraled down into a recession, and now we've got a huge housing crisis on our hands.
If you still need to survive then you're going to have to think about who put you in the deadbeat position you're in right now. Think about who's fault the price of gas is. Think about who created this housing crisis, and acted as a catalyst towards an economic recession. George W. Bush did. Do you really trust a candidate who basically agrees on every issue with our current president?
Cigaro wrote:
Why are they trying to kill America?
That would be the Republicans, not the Democrats.
Fiendfyre wrote:
These same people who say "GO GREEN" are the same idiots who got us in this position in the first place.
Last I checked, George W. Bush never said anything near "GO GREEN." He usually says things more like 'Global Warming is a scam' and 'screw the poor, I'm giving tax breaks to corporations.'
Fiendfyre wrote:
The middle east and parts of South America will always have more oil than us - but we really have no idea how much oil our own country can even produce. Why? Because oil companies can't even prospect on potentially oil rich land because of the idiot environmentalists who think it will ruin our environment. They won't even let companies build REFINERIES.
Explain this to me. You want to
1. Damage our environment
2. Increase our dependency on a nonrenewable resource
3. Stunt our technological advances
4. Create an inevitable economic collapse when oil does run out.
NEWSFLASH: Oil is a nonrenewable resource. It won't be here forever. At some point in time, we are going to need to stop using oil.
Fiendfyre wrote:
Simple economics.
The price is high because demand exceeds supply.
How do we get more supply of gas? Build more refineries and search for oil in Alaska, where no one lives anyways.
Better idea: decrease demand. With hydrogen powered cars on the market, there will be significantly less demand for gas. This is good because:
1. It lowers the price of gas
2. It creates renewable energy that will NEVER RUN OUT
3. It lowers the price of gas
4. It creates government support for technology, rather than having another evangelical idiot wage a war on science
5. It lowers the price of gas
Fiendfyre wrote:
We have oil. We just need to push the idiots aside who say we shouldn't "ruin the environment" to get to it. Mining does way worse to the environment than oil drilling.
So explain to me what we're going to do when our oil runs out? Can you say 'Depression'? Explain to me why we should be dependent on a resource that we know for a fact will at some point run out? That is setting ourself up for failure. _________________
well, firstly... pretending to be liberal??? Because I don't agree with you I am guessing? I'm sorry but using a post count to a forum to judge my credibility to my belief system really is idiotic and demoralizing the entire concept of having an opinion lol.
Hydrogen powered (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CORRECTION ON THE EQUALLY EXPENSIVE CAR), regularly priced or not are still too high for the lower class.... How many lower class people do you actually think can afford to go out and just decide to get a new car.. "LET'S GET THE HYBRID!" No, I'm sorry to say it doesn't happen... We have to go with what we can, which are the pieces of crap at police auctions and whatever our credit can actually allow us to afford.
So, while the vast majority are sitting good while gas prices sky rocket, poor people like me have to wait it out until the 8 dollars becomes what, 6? and then 3 again? How long am I going to have to wait??? Will I be sitting on my paychecks going to gas for en entire year before gas prices go down... I better do what I can to make sure THAT passes.
As I said, it's really easy to say "let's do this" when you can afford to live while the boycotting is going down, while the poor man is living like third world countries.
That really bothers me, that you would attack my belief to even say I'm trying to gain.... credibility????? Whaaaaa????? Credibility for what?? Dude this is the debate section for a Harry Potter forum.....
As for saying I'm in a dead beat position, a big fuck you dude.... Instead of being an asshole on a Harry Potter forum, and thinking everything YOU believe is the correct way in seeing the world, you should grasp the fact that there are people out there who are very broke, and in much need of help... And telling them the solution is in buying a new car, when the most of them don't have credit to allow such a thing isn't the answer.
lol
"YOU HAVE 16 POSTS SO I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO GAIN CREDIBILITY" xD
---
edit:
And for the whole "when we run out" thing.... What about the oil they discovered in North Dakota as I pointed out earlier....? They said it's an amazing amount of oil just waiting, but the environmentalist won't allow us to drill for it. _________________
well, firstly... pretending to be liberal??? Because I don't agree with you I am guessing? I'm sorry but using a post count to a forum to judge my credibility to my belief system really is idiotic and demoralizing the entire concept of having an opinion lol.
Alright, maybe you don't know what a troll is, but let me break this down for you. There are some people who join forums like these, and pretend that they're of some political party just to gain credibility from people in that party, and then bash the shit out of the party they claim to be from... kind of like what you're doing.
It's like if I were to go on another forum and say something like:
"I'm a Republican. I've been fiscally conservative for X years, but I really don't think McCain would be a great president. *insert McCain bashing here*"
It's a troll tactic, and it seems like that's what you're doing. The fact that you have 16 posts means nothing other than I don't know you, and I don't know what your real opinions are yet.
Cigaro wrote:
Hydrogen powered (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE CORRECTION ON THE EQUALLY EXPENSIVE CAR), regularly priced or not are still too high for the lower class.... How many lower class people do you actually think can afford to go out and just decide to get a new car.. "LET'S GET THE HYBRID!" No, I'm sorry to say it doesn't happen... We have to go with what we can, which are the pieces of crap at police auctions and whatever our credit can actually allow us to afford.
Then wait until they drop down to reasonable prices. In the meantime you'll be spending less on gas anyway, since the prices of gas are going to DROP if hydrogen fueled cars get released into the market. What's the problem here?
Cigaro wrote:
So, while the vast majority are sitting good while gas prices sky rocket, poor people like me have to wait it out until the 8 dollars becomes what, 6? and then 3 again? How long am I going to have to wait??? Will I be sitting on my paychecks going to gas for en entire year before gas prices go down... I better do what I can to make sure THAT passes.
Wait? Who said wait? Gas prices will drop as soon as hydrogen cars are released into the market. If we keep intentionally preventing this technology from reaching the market, then gas prices will RISE. If we keep drilling for oil, gas prices will RISE. They won't stop going up until people don't need gas anymore.
Cigaro wrote:
As I said, it's really easy to say "let's do this" when you can afford to live while the boycotting is going down, while the poor man is living like third world countries.
So your solution is to raise gas prices?
Cigaro wrote:
That really bothers me, that you would attack my belief to even say I'm trying to gain.... credibility????? Whaaaaa????? Credibility for what?? Dude this is the debate section for a Harry Potter forum.....
Credibility as a liberal, which at this point I doubt you are.
Cigaro wrote:
As for saying I'm in a dead beat position, a big fuck you dude.... Instead of being an asshole on a Harry Potter forum, and thinking everything YOU believe is the correct way in seeing the world, you should grasp the fact that there are people out there who are very broke, and in much need of help... And telling them the solution is in buying a new car, when the most of them don't have credit to allow such a thing isn't the answer.
Well you claim to be dirt poor, so I'm assuming your dirt poor. Is that such a ridiculous assumption?
Cigaro wrote:
lol
"YOU HAVE 16 POSTS SO I THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO GAIN CREDIBILITY" xD
Like I said before, look up the word 'troll,' because you're acting like one.
Cigaro wrote:
edit:
And for the whole "when we run out" thing.... What about the oil they discovered in North Dakota as I pointed out earlier....? They said it's an amazing amount of oil just waiting, but the environmentalist won't allow us to drill for it.
You think that oil in North Dakota will last forever? Oil runs out, dude. It's not something that's constantly restored - it takes hundreds of thousands of years for the Earth to manufacture it. Therefore, we WILL run out of oil someday - everyone with half an education knows that it's going to happen at some point in time. The smart decision is to not be dependant on it, because that'll set us up for another Depression. _________________
So, by releasing the cars the gas will have to go down because nobody is buying it? Sounds like a solid argument, but like... Why would they lower it to the point of not making any money.... Will this go down after it's gone up to 8 a gallon, so in actuality we'll still be paying right out the ass for gasoline???? SOMETHING has to be done here.
Quote:
Well you claim to be dirt poor, so I'm assuming your dirt poor. Is that such a ridiculous assumption?
i am referring to calling me a dead beat because I am dirt poor.... Do you realize how many possible ways could have made me poor??? I finished high school, I attended college.... And now I am in debt out of my ass BECAUSE I had to pay so much for my education. I'm sorry but because I am poor does not make me a DEAD BEAT.
Quote:
Credibility as a liberal, which at this point I doubt you are.
Well shit man, I don't really care what you believe, I believe in. I don't even know exactly where I stand on my alignment, I do know Michael Moore is a liberal and he is the person I identify most with.... I consider myself a democrat as I said in my first post... I never even said I was a liberal did I? lol _________________
Last I checked, George W. Bush never said anything near "GO GREEN." He usually says things more like 'Global Warming is a scam' and 'screw the poor, I'm giving tax breaks to corporations.'
I wasn't saying he did? drilling for oil doesn't hurt the environment that much. Refining it does more than drilling. However, I don't think a few more refineries are going to put our planet in any more peril, even if global warming were a proven problem (which, don't say it is, because if it weren't, there wouldn't be a huge controversy would there be?)
Flamingmonkey923 wrote:
Explain this to me. You want to
1. Damage our environment
2. Increase our dependency on a nonrenewable resource
3. Stunt our technological advances
4. Create an inevitable economic collapse when oil does run out.
NEWSFLASH: Oil is a nonrenewable resource. It won't be here forever. At some point in time, we are going to need to stop using oil.
NEWSFLASH: We're not even close to being there yet, genius. This is a solution to a current problem - the rest of us are not looking 50 years ahead into your crystal ball at the moment.
Flamingmonkey923 wrote:
Better idea: decrease demand. With hydrogen powered cars on the market, there will be significantly less demand for gas. This is good because:
1. It lowers the price of gas
2. It creates renewable energy that will NEVER RUN OUT
3. It lowers the price of gas
4. It creates government support for technology, rather than having another evangelical idiot wage a war on science
5. It lowers the price of gas
... This is how I can tell you are in high school even if I didn't know you. Again, stop looking into your crystal ball 50 years ahead.
Hybrid cars are a new thing, and are a few thousand dollars more expensive than a typical brand new car today. The rest of the economy is in pretty bad shape - people are just now starting to really buy them. It'd be great if everyone could switch immediately like you want, but it's not possible any time soon, and even when the majority of people switch to hybrid cars (WHICH STILL USE GAS), it is going to be decades before people get rid of their gas guzzling vehicles. We're going to need more oil. Get over it.
Flamingtard923 wrote:
So explain to me what we're going to do when our oil runs out? Can you say 'Depression'? Explain to me why we should be dependent on a resource that we know for a fact will at some point run out? That is setting ourself up for failure.
Again. Look outside of your crystal ball.
We have an immediate problem. We need to solve it. Environmentalists who think anything we do ruins our planet are keeping us from doing that. They're being stupid. Our oil will not "run out" any time soon if we use the full resources of this country and stop being controlled by foreign morons. We need to fix this economic problem NOW so that our economy can allow new technologies to develop.. duh. _________________
^ HP Chat & Games
I don't feel like getting into a debate about American issues, I mean in Oz it is somewhat reflected, ridiculous fuel prices, the bridge between social classes broadening, living costs rising, environmental debates but, my problem is the perception.
It might not be an appropriate comparison but when you're in debt you don't get another loan to pay off some bills. You make severe cut backs, sell what ever you can, find a cheaper home and car etc. You do this to build up a new life for the future. Otherwise the debt will rise just because you'd rather keep things the way they are so you have the illusion of normality.
Oh and a question, if fuel is so expensive why can't you just catch a bus or train or walk or ride to work? I hate when people over here complain about fuel prices then waste it driving somewhere that would only have taken about 20 minutes to walk to. _________________
Why is it, the democrats who used to look after the lower class, now look after the middle class and say to hell with the rest of us?
theyre politicians they are only looking after themselves
humoring the lower class is a tactic to get votes from individuals who feel jaded by life's unfairness _________________
"The voices in my head are telling me to kill you"
Oh and a question, if fuel is so expensive why can't you just catch a bus or train or walk or ride to work? I hate when people over here complain about fuel prices then waste it driving somewhere that would only have taken about 20 minutes to walk to.
Public transportation isn't available everywhere. It would be great if it was... but it's just not. And it's reliability is questionable. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate ~ Bob Dylan Team Cucumber, FTW!
and as for commuting, well, in some countries its okay. in othr countries commuting is worse than being chased by a rabid dog around the block. trust me, i live in such a country. _________________
its totally okay commuting in another country. its horrible here... so full of pollution... like you can actually wipe your face and the tissue will be black. and then there's the noise, and the lack of sidewalks, and the smell of pee and garbage and god-knows-what, and robbers everywhere.... _________________
its totally okay commuting in another country. its horrible here... so full of pollution... like you can actually wipe your face and the tissue will be black. and then there's the noise, and the lack of sidewalks, and the smell of pee and garbage and god-knows-what, and robbers everywhere....
damn hbp
now i worry _________________
"The voices in my head are telling me to kill you"
thats why when our economics teacher proposed walking instead of transportation, we were like "dude, no way"... then he talked about those good old days when he used to walk to school... well duh... manila used to be a pretty place... remove overcrowdedness (all the transport and pollution and robbers and crowds) and you'll be surprised. _________________
Yeah, some people are like, "Oh public transportation isn't so bad, suck it up." But for some people it isn't even an option at all. Not because it's scary, but because it isn't available. And for others, like hbp, it's completely unsafe. And the prices for those will go up, as well. The price of the trains have gone up... it'll keep going up. It's all supply and demand. Once peopple start relying on public transportation more, the prices will go up there, too. _________________ Blame it on a simple twist of fate ~ Bob Dylan Team Cucumber, FTW!
I wasn't saying he did? drilling for oil doesn't hurt the environment that much. Refining it does more than drilling. However, I don't think a few more refineries are going to put our planet in any more peril, even if global warming were a proven problem (which, don't say it is, because if it weren't, there wouldn't be a huge controversy would there be?)
You said the people who were saying "GO GREEN" were the ones making oil so expensive. Wrong answer. George W. Bush is the one making oil so expensive (or Dick Cheyney rather).
Fiendfyre wrote:
NEWSFLASH: We're not even close to being there yet, genius. This is a solution to a current problem - the rest of us are not looking 50 years ahead into your crystal ball at the moment.
Yes we are. Hydrogen powered cars could have been on the market five years ago, if it wasn't for Dick Cheyney protecting his huge oil buddies.
Fiendfyre wrote:
... This is how I can tell you are in high school even if I didn't know you. Again, stop looking into your crystal ball 50 years ahead.
I'm not looking 50 years ahead, you're looking 100 years behind. We're not in the Dark Ages anymore, genius. The technology is out there and ready to be used - if our government would stop preventing any competition from arising to oppose the oil industry than it would have been on the market years ago.
Fiendfyre wrote:
Hybrid cars are a new thing, and are a few thousand dollars more expensive than a typical brand new car today. The rest of the economy is in pretty bad shape - people are just now starting to really buy them. It'd be great if everyone could switch immediately like you want, but it's not possible any time soon, and even when the majority of people switch to hybrid cars (WHICH STILL USE GAS), it is going to be decades before people get rid of their gas guzzling vehicles. We're going to need more oil. Get over it.
Hydrogen powered cars =/= hybrids. And yes, a large portion of the population would be able to buy these cars within a few years, therefore reducing the price of gas.
Fiendfyre wrote:
Again. Look outside of your crystal ball.
Again, look outside the Dark Ages
Fiendfyre wrote:
We have an immediate problem. We need to solve it. Environmentalists who think anything we do ruins our planet are keeping us from doing that. They're being stupid. Our oil will not "run out" any time soon if we use the full resources of this country and stop being controlled by foreign morons. We need to fix this economic problem NOW so that our economy can allow new technologies to develop.. duh.
Yeah, we need to fix it NOW. We should have had this technology on the market half a decade ago. We need to stop pushing off our technological advances to protect huge oil firms, and solve the issue at hand. Stunting technology isn't going to do anyone any good. _________________
yes. its strange that cars are not yet in the market... well duh! it would reduce profits for the oil companies.
and even if environmental damage isnt a serious issue yet (for some people who believe it isnt), why wait until it becomes a serious issue? if there is a solution already at hand, why not use it? if there is none, then fine. but if there is, then why choose the non-enviro friendly option? _________________
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