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GinnyX
Joined: May 6, 2007
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 Posted: May 15, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: |
GinnyX
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It does seem as though Harry inadvertantly set these teachers free from their teaching positions... but if it wasn't him, it would have happened somehow. DD stated very clearly that they have not had a DADA teacher last more than a year since Tom Riddle was denied the job. So every year, before Harry came to Hogwarts, the DADA teachers lasted no longer than a year.
I do not believe it was Harry that set off the line of teachers. It was Voldemort, in some way. Each teacher has left because of Voldemort. Not Harry.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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yeah, but what about quirrell?
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GinnyX
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
GinnyX
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| halfbloodprincess wrote: |
| yeah, but what about quirrell? |
How do you mean?
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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he could not have attended two years before, and then taken a break the year before coming to hogwarts
- hagrid said that quirrell had "never been the same since". so quirrell had to have a period of teaching in hogwarts for hagrid to observe him.
- dumbledore qould have announced "welcome back, professor quirrell"
he could not have attended the year before:
- hagrid said he took one year off
- dumbledore said no DADA teacher lasted more than a year
he could not have been new:
- percy knew him. prefects do not know who the new teachers are. neither ron nor hermione knew that umbridge was gonna be the new DADA teacher. fine ron, but hermione has the personality of percy and she would definitely try to find out all she can. so i guess that information is not disclosed to prefects.
- hagrid must have known him as a teacher to say that he is scared of his students and has never been the same since.
so how do you resolve that?
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anthony_price
Joined: Mar 16, 2007
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| like i said before...why would he need further training for a DADA job?...whose to say he taught DADA he first couple years...?...he might have taught something else before becoming the DADA teacher..just as snape...meaning he wouldnt be new to teaching there..but new to teaching DADA |
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GinnyX
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| Posted: May 18, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
GinnyX
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I think Quirell did take a year off and DD just didn't welcome him back. Because maybe JKR purposely left that part out of the story as to not draw too much to Prof Quirell.
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 18, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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that's funny since dumbledore would not forget to welcome a teacher.
anthony: while he could have taught somewhere else, it ahd to be in a place which hagrid knew, and hagrid isnt very well exposed to different schools. and yes he could have taught another subject before, but when he changed jobs, dumbledore should have annoucned that he abandoned his old post to be replaced by professor so and so and took up instead the post of DADA teacher. he did not. so we can reasonably assume that there was continuity in his job.
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Overhill
Joined: May 19, 2007
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| Posted: May 19, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
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I tried to figure this out, and I worked it out in one of my fanfics ("The Merlin", second chapter:
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About two weeks before school ended, the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher became deathly ill and was released from her contract. Professor Quirrell was given the job, having substituted for it a number of times. As he taught Astronomy, a night class, he had been able to step in at a moment's notice, and having taken the previous year off to travel and gain some "real-life" experiences, he was considered qualified to teach the subject full-time.
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It is not canon, but it fits that Quirrell might have been a substitute who got the job in the last weeks of the school, and then died two weeks before the end of the next school year, thereby teaching only one year, total, thereby not needing an introduction from the Headmaster, and still fitting Hagrid and Percy's descriptions of the man.
My story reference - http://lumos.sycophanthex.com/viewstory.php?sid=2685&i=1 (near end of chapter) |
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 19, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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mmm... possibly... but then there will have to be a new teacher to replace quirrel's previous subject, thought dumbledore did not announce anyone. so we can reasonably assume that sinistra taught astronomy the year before harry, and the same goes for mcgonagall, snape, flitwick, sprout, trelawney, binns, kettleburn, vector, etc.
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Overhill
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| Posted: May 20, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| In my story, I has Sinastra hired as the Astronomy teacher the same time Quirrell was moved over to DADA, so she would have been teaching for two weeks the previous year also, so Dumbledore would not have had to announce her either. |
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 20, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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maybe, but then again, in that situation, and even inthe situation that quirrell is the sole teacher of astronomy (or any other subject), it was assumed the year before that quirrell was only taking the DADA post TEMPORARILY. therefore, DD will have to make the announcement "quirell will permanently be teaching DADA". but he didnt.
Ex.
a few weeks before the end of the year (this is the year before harry), astronomy teacher quirell teaches DADA.
the year harry comes to hogwarts
- dd will have to announce that quirrell is abandoning his old astronomy post and will PERMANENTLY teach DADA. so its not a matter anymore of continuity of teaching the subject. its a matter of being hired already for the post itself.
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Vasaver
Joined: Apr 21, 2007
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| Posted: May 20, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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maybe, but then again, in that situation, and even inthe situation that quirrell is the sole teacher of astronomy (or any other subject), it was assumed the year before that quirrell was only taking the DADA post TEMPORARILY. therefore, DD will have to make the announcement "quirell will permanently be teaching DADA". but he didnt.
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I completely agree with you... even if he DID take a vacation to go do whatever... Im sure that DD would still have to aunonce Quirell has replaced so and so after returning from where ever. But there was no anouncement. Also if he had taught another class honestly what could it have been? Quirell was easily the youngest teracher there and I am sure that the other jobs he could have tought at had been occupied say Professor Sprout or McGonagall... Flitwick ect.. most of the staff has been there for forever. This was made clear in book five when umbridge was investigating someone... Unless he had a job taht was never aunonced in the books it hardly unlikely that he had a job previously and still I have feeling DD would have still said SOMETHING. Look at it this way, either DD was wrong or JK screwed up on something... |
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 12:26 am Post subject: |
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that's what i think.
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GinnyX
Joined: May 6, 2007
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
GinnyX
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Ok, yes, It is not like DD to forget to announce a teacher... but I think that JK Rowling, when writing the book decided to leave it out as to not draw attention to Quirell. Whether or not he took a year off or switched subjects or became a permanent teacher... it doesn't matter. Snape was the red herring, when reading the book most people assumed it was Snape who was trying to take the Stone. Most people did not think it was Quirell because he was such a minor character.
If DD introduced Quirell, then the reader would have started wondering, who is this teacher? What happened to the former teacher? Why is this teacher taking over? Why did he leave? Etc... To have DD announce his name would have brought him into the spotlight and upgraded him from a minor character to a more supporting lead. Which would have made him a suspect and the ending wouldn't have been as surprising as it was.
Quirell was left as just another teacher going about his business while being bullied by the mean Potions professor. Which nudged the reader further into suspecting Snape, hence the surprise ending.
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Overhill
Joined: May 19, 2007
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Vasaver wrote:
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| Also if he had taught another class honestly what could it have been? Quirell was easily the youngest teracher there and I am sure that the other jobs he could have tought at had been occupied say Professor Sprout or McGonagall... Flitwick ect.. most of the staff has been there for forever. |
Which was why I had Sinistra take the Astronomy post that I had Quirrell teaching. The DADA teacher in my story had become deathly ill, and had to be released from her contract, so Quirrell got her job, and Sinistra was put into Astronomy before the end of the year, so all the students at school at that time knew who the teachers would be for the next year. Hence, the postitions were filled - and announced - before the end of the year, before Harry came to Hogwarts. |
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Vasaver
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Which was why I had Sinistra take the Astronomy post that I had Quirrell teaching. The DADA teacher in my story had become deathly ill, and had to be released from her contract, so Quirrell got her job, and Sinistra was put into Astronomy before the end of the year, so all the students at school at that time knew who the teachers would be for the next year. Hence, the postitions were filled - and announced - before the end of the year, before Harry came to Hogwarts. |
One flaw in that, in the fifth book Sinistra aunonced to Umbridge that she had been teaching for 14 years which means she had been working at Hogwarts ever since she made the profecy. Quirrell could have not taken her job for if that was the case she would have said 13 yrs and not 14 yrs.
Unless you want to look at this way, the first year Quirell taught it was him, the second yr he taught it was Voldemort/Quirell. But he STILL taught for more than one year. |
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anthony_price
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| everything GinnyX says makes perfect since...why would JK draw attention to the fact that he was new..so she conviniently left it out... |
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HRH2013
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| Posted: May 21, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that it was just a mistake. I am about 99 percent sure that Quirrell was just appointed as DADA. If you really want to know, ask JK. *tee hee* |
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Overhill
Joined: May 19, 2007
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| Posted: May 22, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| One flaw in that, in the fifth book Sinistra aunonced to Umbridge that she had been teaching for 14 years which means she had been working at Hogwarts ever since she made the profecy. Quirrell could have not taken her job for if that was the case she would have said 13 yrs and not 14 yrs. |
I missed that. She could have been teaching in Muggle Studies or Arthimancy.
| Quote: |
| Unless you want to look at this way, the first year Quirell taught it was him, the second yr he taught it was Voldemort/Quirell. But he STILL taught for more than one year. |
I figured that Quirrell had been at the school for at least four years. First, hired; second, trip for "experience"; third, substituting in DADA ("scared of his subject," Hagrid said); fourth, perm. DADA teacher, Harry Potter's first year. |
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 22, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: |
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that is also a good one... except that, again, dumbledore would have made the announcement "i am sorry to say that professor so-and-so has retired from his post of defense against the dark arts teacher. however, i am happy to announce that his substitute, professor quirrell, will be taking his place."
it all boils down to one thing - that he didnt announce anything, which suggests continuity in everything.
ginny and anthony, while it does make sense for her to not draw attention to quirrell, it does not make sense with the plot, since dmbledore says one thing but the evidence points to another.
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Overhill
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| Posted: May 22, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm suggesting that he made the announcement the last week or two of the previous school year.
Of course, it is possible that JKR didn't decide that DADA teachers only lasted one year while she was writing OofP/HBP and describing Tom Riddle's job interview. |
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Vasaver
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| Posted: May 22, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Of course, it is possible that JKR didn't decide that DADA teachers only lasted one year while she was writing OofP/HBP and describing Tom Riddle's job interview. |
You see i can see that... and thats where I beleive that JK screwed upo on. She had already written with info that pointed that Quirrell could have been indeed there for more than one year. But she didnt remember this so when she added something more to the overall plot, she had forgotten. Then again she may have left this for the more in depth reader to see and think about how there are small inperfect things about DD. [/code][/quote] |
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halfbloodprincess
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| Posted: May 22, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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i guess this is the best explanation
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I'm suggesting that he made the announcement the last week or two of the previous school year.
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although i really think its a mistake.
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Vasaver
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| Posted: May 23, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea most likely, I mean she has already messed up on a few things... so why not this too... |
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halfbloodprincess
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