ok here i want to ask everyone what they think will happen in the 7th book.
heres what I think:
Harry will be a horcrux:voldemorts last one. in order to kill voldemort harry will have to kill himself because as long as he is alive so is voldemort because he is a horcruxx. maybe voldemort doesnt even know harrys a horcrux. and as the prophecy states "neither shall live while the other survives" so obviousley one of the deaths is going to be either voldemrot or harry. I think it will be both, since jkr said that there wil be 2 deaths, i think it will be harry and voldemort for the reasons i stated before.
now if you agree with my theory just quote it and write agreed.
if you do not agree write disagree then tell us what you think is going to happen _________________
I really don't know, but if I'd guess I know one of them will be Voldy. I haven't quite decided if Harry is going to be leaving us yet though. _________________
Because of the prophecy and Hagrid is the first of Harry's protectors he meets in the books and they die in decending order... _________________ Nederlands!!
I think voldy will die and I also think harry will die or if not either ginny or hermione or ron _________________ The 2 peole in this picture are Harry and Ginny
At first I was thinking it would be Voldy and Hagrid. But now I sort of think that it will be a Malfoy, one of them. Cissy, Draco or Big Daddy. They have to learn somehow. Here's what I think will Happen with everyone.
Hermione and Ron: Move to Egypt where Hermione will further her studies in ancient Runes or someplace where Runes are available ( Iceland Maybe). They will get married and Have a girl. ( i say girl because girls are rear in the Weasly family.) I can't say what hair color the child will have. That red-hair blood seems to be pretty strong.
The Twins: Will become sucessful business men. Invent somehting really awsome. Fred and will marry ( Angelina maybe, or whoever it is that went out with her.)
Percy: Coming to think of it I think Voldy is a given to be dead so Jk won't really check that as dead. So I'll think the nextin line will be Percy or Charlie. Percy has to redeem himself somehow. Readers hate him.
Dudley: Will get gastric bypass ( joke)
Hagrid: I guess he and his giantess will have to hook up.
Neville- Teacher. Herbology most likely.
Next Defence Teacher: it has to be Shackelbolt or some member of the order.
Fawkes: Will go to Harry.
Sirius: Will eventually communicate with Harry but he will still be very much dead.
Lupin and Tonks: Married.
Mr and Mrs. Weasly: One for the road. I think one more is on the way. ( people tent to have chilren when crap is going on.
NOW THE BIG BOYS
Harry: Someone has to teach that boy Occlumency. He has to go back to school. HE clearly need much more training in Defence Against the Dark Arts. He can't beat Voldy as he is now. Snape told him that. Who's going to do it. caadidates are: Aberfort ( although the text does not suggest how capable he is), A member of the Order ( I don't know if they're good enough), Heaven forbid Wormtail, and my favorite candidate because I love him sooooo much, Snape ( he seems to be really smart, fooling DD or Fooling Voldermort all these years, either way he is a gifted bastard.)
However i think all of this will be important as I don't think harry will be the one to kill Voldy. It will be Snape of that RAB dude. The book never said he was dead for sure. Sirius assumed that he was.
Coming to think of it we are assuming that RAB is a person, how are we so sure that RAB does not stant for something like : Rally Agaginst Badies. Okay, seriously i think that RAB is a person.
Snape: he is not going to die. The way i see it everyone has to have some point of happiness and his entire exsistance has been miserable. So i think he will be happy when all this is over. I belong to the Snape is Good club.
Voldy: Dead or a ghost with no power. I mean she did say that wizards who are afraid to die become ghost. _________________ Remember, Remember, the 5th of November
I don't think Harry is a Horcrux, as a murder needed to be committed. LV couldn't /failed to kill Harry, so no Horcrux was made at the time. _________________ Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
dumbledore said that having a alive horcrux is bad. and you need to kill someone to make something a horcrux so why would he kill harry if he wanted to make him a horcrux unless he wanted harrys dead body as horcrux. _________________
Harry can't be a Horcrux. The only way that he could be is if Voldemort went to the Potter house with that intention and made killed Harry's parents and then turned Harry into the Horcrux. And in that case, then Harry would be a living Horcrux and I'm sure we all remember Dumbledore explaining why that is unwise so I don't have to repeat it, right? So it is unlikely that Voldemort perposefully made Harry into a Horcrux. If you remember, in the Half-Blood Prince Horace Slughorn explained how a Horcrux is made. He said that a witch or wizard must comit murder and then say an incantation(which is never stated). That makes it impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux. If Voldemort had no intention of making Harry a Horcrux, then he wouldn't have spoken the incantation when killing Harry's parents. Thus, Harry can't be a Horcrux. No incantation was spoken. Unless you truely believe that Voldemort would want to have Harry be his Horcrux!!!
Anyways...I think that Voldemort and Harry may both die. We all know that Voldemort HAS to die. There is no other way to end the story, but Harry has a chance. If he doesn't die, I don't have a clue who the other person is that will take his place. All I know is it has to be someone important, but that is vurtually everyone! _________________ "If you love me, then let go of me. I won't be held down by who I used to be."
"Many people die for their beliefs. It is actually quite common. The real courage is in living and suffering for them."
harry and voldemort cant both die. the prophecy says one must die while the other lives. there both marked has equals. _________________ Join Reality Of It All!!!
If you remember, in the Half-Blood Prince Horace Slughorn explained how a Horcrux is made. He said that a witch or wizard must comit murder and then say an incantation(which is never stated). That makes it impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux.
I agree.
**************
The Prophesy is worded very strangely, and something is not quite right there with a *literal* meaning of the phrase.
‘The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will power the Dark Lord knows not…and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives…the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies…’
- Order of the Phoenix, ch 37, The Lost Prophecy
Vanquish is a term meaning ‘to defeat or conquer in battle’.
The term ‘vanquish’ however does not necessarily mean kill. It can also mean ‘to overcome and subdue’.
************************
So there's no guarantee of the death of Voldemort in the prophesy. _________________ Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
Mr and Mrs. Weasly: One for the road. I think one more is on the way. ( people tent to have chilren when crap is going on.
First of all, I don't think they'll have any more children, Ginny is the seventh and JKR said that she has magical powers. It would ruin that if they had eight children.
Back on topic, even if Harry and Voldemort die, I still think two others will die too. "Two die that I didn't intend to die," she said, and obviously Voldemort had to die, he couldn't just go aroundn killing people at the end of the series. Maybe Harry will die, but two others that weren't likely might die, like Hagrid or Malfoy.
If you remember, in the Half-Blood Prince Horace Slughorn explained how a Horcrux is made. He said that a witch or wizard must comit murder and then say an incantation(which is never stated). That makes it impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux.
I agree.
**************
The Prophesy is worded very strangely, and something is not quite right there with a *literal* meaning of the phrase.
‘The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will power the Dark Lord knows not…and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives…the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies…’
- Order of the Phoenix, ch 37, The Lost Prophecy
Vanquish is a term meaning ‘to defeat or conquer in battle’.
The term ‘vanquish’ however does not necessarily mean kill. It can also mean ‘to overcome and subdue’.
************************
So there's no guarantee of the death of Voldemort in the prophesy.
yeah but it also says ...either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..
If you remember, in the Half-Blood Prince Horace Slughorn explained how a Horcrux is made. He said that a witch or wizard must comit murder and then say an incantation(which is never stated). That makes it impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux.
I agree.
**************
The Prophesy is worded very strangely, and something is not quite right there with a *literal* meaning of the phrase.
‘The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies…and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will power the Dark Lord knows not…and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives…the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies…’
- Order of the Phoenix, ch 37, The Lost Prophecy
Vanquish is a term meaning ‘to defeat or conquer in battle’.
The term ‘vanquish’ however does not necessarily mean kill. It can also mean ‘to overcome and subdue’.
************************
So there's no guarantee of the death of Voldemort in the prophesy.
yeah but it also says ...either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..
so death is a must.
The Hero Quest... when the hero fails death and destruction befalls everyone around the him or her.
Harry is the Hero. His quest is to destroy Voldemort. If he does not destroy Voldemort his quest will not be completed and he will die, chaos will erupt, everything will be destroyed, ect. _________________
Last edited by of the lore on July 11, 2007 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
OK DarkMark, I stand corrected, I'm going to be up for hours now. I'm sitting with the two different dictionaries, going through each word. Neither can live - what does that mean?
live (version 1) can mean in different contexts:
1. have life
2. remain alive
3. to endure
4. to reside
5. to enjoy a full life
So it could mean
1. Neither can *have life* while the other survives. So both are killed?
2. Neither can *remain alive* while the other survives - so both die?
3. Neither can *endure* it while the other survives - more likely IMHO.
4. Discounted - voldemort didn't leave a postal address.
5. Neither can *enjoy a full life* while the other survives. Most likely IMHO.
So unless we're going with the both have to die version, then the very cagey non literal meaning is to do with quality of life. Harry is going to hunt down Voldemort sort of stuff?
Which version of "live" do you guys think is nearest ? _________________ Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
OK DarkMark, I stand corrected, I'm going to be up for hours now. I'm sitting with the two different dictionaries, going through each word. Neither can live - what does that mean?
live (version 1) can mean in different contexts:
1. have life
2. remain alive
3. to endure
4. to reside
5. to enjoy a full life
So it could mean
1. Neither can *have life* while the other survives. So both are killed?
2. Neither can *remain alive* while the other survives - so both die?
3. Neither can *endure* it while the other survives - more likely IMHO.
4. Discounted - voldemort didn't leave a postal address.
5. Neither can *enjoy a full life* while the other survives. Most likely IMHO.
So unless we're going with the both have to die version, then the very cagey non literal meaning is to do with quality of life. Harry is going to hunt down Voldemort sort of stuff?
Which version of "live" do you guys think is nearest ?
it says..."while the other dies." so one must live...while the other dies. its there. thats what i believe. _________________ Join Reality Of It All!!!
"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."
This can mean so many different things, it doesn't necessary have to be literal.
But as I said before the story will follow the Hero Cycle.
He'll complete the Hero Quest or destruction will come open him and everything that surrounds him. _________________
"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies...and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not...and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."
This can mean so many different things, it doesn't necessary have to be literal.
But as I said before the story will follow the Hero Cycle.
He'll complete the Hero Quest or destruction will come open him and everything that surrounds him.
You have very good points. But....wasn't there a conversation between Dumbeldore and harry talking about the part where one must live while the other dies? and Harry specifically said that me or Voldemort has to die while the other lives ? Doesn't Dumbeldore says he is correct? _________________ Join Reality Of It All!!!
But as I said before the story will follow the Hero Cycle.
Can I ask what is the "Hero Cycle", I've heard the term, but don't understand it or if it has implied meanings.
Does it ever happen that the Hero fails? do you know any stories where this has happened?
Or does it imply that the Hero will succeed?
Or can a Hero only partially succeed, what happens in this circumstance?
Eg Harry destroys all the Horcruxes apart from the soul inside Voldemort, and then Harry is killed. Can anyone else say Neville complete the quest? _________________ Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
But as I said before the story will follow the Hero Cycle.
Can I ask what is the "Hero Cycle", I've heard the term, but don't understand it or if it has implied meanings.
Does it ever happen that the Hero fails? do you know any stories where this has happened?
Or does it imply that the Hero will succeed?
Or can a Hero only partially succeed, what happens in this circumstance?
Eg Harry destroys all the Horcruxes apart from the soul inside Voldemort, and then Harry is killed. Can anyone else say Neville complete the quest?
It comes from The Hero With a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. This book inspired Star Wars and stuff. Dude is so bad ass. It goes into Freud and all this psychological and mythological stuff.
But there is an actual Hero cycle. It pretty much always holds true.
Hero form (Hero Cycle)- Nuclear unit of the monomyth.
1. Leave/Call
2. Separation
3. Initiation
4. Return
Example: "Prometheus ascended to the heavens, stole the fire from the gods, and descended."
Return of the Hero:
Upon the return of a successful hero - The boon.
Boon = the purpose.
Boon -
1. Food
2. Grace of God
3. Energy
4. Knowledge
The flow of life - a successful adventure = the unlocking + release of the flow of life into the world. "Such varieties of image alternate easily, representing three degrees of condemnation of the one life force."
Hero must live to succeed.
Failure of the Hero = encompassing death.
(Note: !!! See?!)
The Refusal of the Summons:
When refusing the call (the quest/adventure) the person's life feels meaningless and boring. Eventually destruction will befall the Refuser.
"Because I have called, and ye have refused... I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh upon you."
- Refusal of the summons converts the adventure into it's negative.
- Becomes an internal struggle
Hero Sequence (Note: This is from the Documentary The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and some other dude):
"Typical sequence of hero action"
"A hero is someone who has given his life to something bigger than himself.
----------
If the Hero fails, the hero dies.
Failure of the quest = total destruction.
If the Hero dies before the quest is finished, he failed.
So, if Harry dies before killing him he has failed the quest.
I think it'd also be considered failure if he died at the end of the quest (Killing Voldemort). For the quest to be completed Harry must live.
I probably should have explained the World Navel thing and the Initiation too. Oh well.
I admit, it's going to take me a couple of re readings for it all to sink in.
Basically the Return of Hero/Harry, is about him successfully saving the wizarding world. OK - I'm good with that point.
So Freud's take on this would be that Harry can't die, or fail. OK, I'm good with that.
What do these points mean though?
1. Leave/call - ??
2. Separation - was this the death of Harry's parents? How do you define it?
3. Initiation - is this the start of the quest, ie starting school at Hogwarts? _________________ Education is the passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
I admit, it's going to take me a couple of re readings for it all to sink in.
Basically the Return of Hero/Harry, is about him successfully saving the wizarding world. OK - I'm good with that point.
So Freud's take on this would be that Harry can't die, or fail. OK, I'm good with that.
What do these points mean though?
1. Leave/call - ??
2. Separation - was this the death of Harry's parents? How do you define it?
3. Initiation - is this the start of the quest, ie starting school at Hogwarts?
The Hero Cycle doesn't really have anything to do with Freud. There is a lot of Freud in the first part of the book though. Joseph Campbell came up with the Hero Cycle thing.
Edit: 1 and 2 are sometimes combined.
1. The call... the actual thing is The Call to Adventure.
2. The beginning. The preparation. The tests. It is during this stage that the Hero would find his helpers (if he needs them). This would be Harry's school years. He gets Ron + Hermine + DA and he has a test in each book.
3. This is where all the good stuff goes down. The big final thing. Would be Harry's fight with Voldemort.
If Harry wins, he'll return and get his boon.
Loss = destruction/death/no boon/ect.
The boon thing (Food, Grace of God, Energy, Knowledge) isn't necessarily literal. Those are the four basic categories, but they can mean all kinds of things. The boon is like the prize, kind of.
Edit: I forgot about the question asking if there are stories about Hero's failing. People don't generally write books about it because it's kind of depressing, but it happens a lot in Mythology. I just read a story about some dude failing. I forget his name. Hades causes a lot of trouble. People try to go down and rescue their gals from him a lot, but the guys who go down always fail. _________________
Last edited by of the lore on March 7, 2007 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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