Nagini has a Horcrux in her and Voldemort has complete control over her.
Does he have complete control over Harry?
NO!
No, but that could explain why DD said that creating a horcrux using a living thing is not smart. It could explain how he was able to do what he did to Harry in OOTP as well.
I feel the connection/similarities between Harry and Voldemort are just too strong. _________________
In my mind there is not doubt that Harry is a horcrux.
Several things from the night LV killed Harry’s parents demonstrate that Harry a horcrux. Though we know that LV’s AK curse backfired when he tried to kill Harry, the AK curse is famous for leaving its victims “unblemished and unmarked” (GoF, 216). Also, according to DD, the AK curse “does not usually leave signs of damage”, so why would Godric’s Hollow have been destroyed by the backfiring AK (HBP, 366)? Along with the fact that DD already suspected that LV went to GH that night to make his final horcrux, it is logical to think that the level of damage dealt to GH and the scar on Harry’s forehead as well as the striking similarities between Harry and LV are a result of some greater curse (HBP, 506). It makes sense that when the AK backfired, part of LV’s soul which had been prepared to enter another object instead entered Harry.
Apart from the events that fateful night there is more to suggest that Harry is a horcrux. While opponents of this theory claim that Harry cannot be a horcrux because it would not make sense why LV would then have tried to kill Harry through 5 books, as Corpse suggested earlier, it makes more sense that LV simply did not know that he had accidentally made Harry a horcrux until the conclusion of OotP. During the climactic battle between DD and LV, at one point Harry becomes “locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes . . . they were fused together, bound by pain, and there was no escape” (OotP, 816). We know from this passage that LV possessed Harry, who was only able to break the connection by conjuring strong feelings of love, the only emotion the creature could not survive, for Sirius. This possession, coupled with Snape’s command to the death eater’s at the end of HBP that “Potter belongs to the Dark Lord” both can only mean that LV was not aware of Harry as a horcrux until the fight in the Ministry of Magic, and that he needs to face Harry alive to extract the horcrux (HBP 603).
All of this evidence and more points to only one conclusion: Harry is a horcrux.
I am still undecided as to which I believe, but I have come across several pieces of evidence from the canon that suggest Harry is not a horcrux. All those who believe Harry is a horcrux must believe that he is an accidental horcrux, because LV has attempted to kill him several times. There is not one time in the canon where an exact spell triggers on accident. To actually cast a spell one must have the exact wand movement and incantation, as the students are told many times in class. “Remember, swish and flick!” (SS) The only type of magic that happens accidentally is not an exact, intended spell. For example, when Harry blows up his Aunt Marge it is entirely unintentional and just the result of his emotion. A powerful, dark piece of magic like the creation of a horcrux is not likely to happen accidentally.
Perhaps the greatest piece of evidence against Harry being a horcrux is that Harry feels excruciating pain when LV possesses him at the MOM in OOTP, as does LV himself. The love within Harry, which was given to him when Lily sacrificed herself for him, makes it impossible for Voldemort to stay in possession of Harry. How could a part of a soul so evil survive in such a loving environment?
Good point about the accidental magic, though I'm still not convinced that the backfire is a result of LV messing up the spell or simply the charm caused by Lily's death causing the horcrux/AK spell to backfire.
One the subject of the scar, it seems to me that the pain Harry feels only backs up the fact that he is a horcrux. If there was not the internal struggle between LV's soul fragment and Harry's love then there would be no pain. IMO, the pain simply confirms the fact that part of LV's soul is inside of Harry and that it is in conflict with Harry's own soul.
Last edited by mugg1eborn on March 2, 2007 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Though we know that LV’s AK curse backfired when he tried to kill Harry, the AK curse is famous for leaving its victims “unblemished and unmarked” (GoF, 216). Also, according to DD, the AK curse “does not usually leave signs of damage”, so why would Godric’s Hollow have been destroyed by the backfiring AK (HBP, 366)?
Yes, it is true that the AK curse is famous for leaving its victims "unblemished and unmarked", but we have also never heard of one backfiring before. It is said several times throughout the canon that Harry is the only person ever known to have survived the AK curse. Since this is so we have never seen what happens when it does backfire. We have no previous examples to compare with Harry's AK caused scar, so there is no way of using this as proof that Harry is a horcrux.
Though we know that LV’s AK curse backfired when he tried to kill Harry, the AK curse is famous for leaving its victims “unblemished and unmarked” (GoF, 216). Also, according to DD, the AK curse “does not usually leave signs of damage”, so why would Godric’s Hollow have been destroyed by the backfiring AK (HBP, 366)?
Yes, it is true that the AK curse is famous for leaving its victims "unblemished and unmarked", but we have also never heard of one backfiring before. It is said several times throughout the canon that Harry is the only person ever known to have survived the AK curse. Since this is so we have never seen what happens when it does backfire. We have no previous examples to compare with Harry's AK caused scar, so there is no way of using this as proof that Harry is a horcrux.
I'm not entirely sure the curse LV casted on Harry was just the AK and not a combination of several curses. Also, we have never heard of another case like Harry's where someone sacrificed his/her life to protect another from the AK curse.
One the subject of the scar, it seems to me that the pain Harry feels only backs up the fact that he is a horcrux. If there was not the internal struggle between LV's soul fragment and Harry's love then there would be no pain. IMO, the pain simply confirms the fact that part of LV's soul is inside of Harry and that it is in conflict with Harry's own soul.
This is a really good point, although I think the fact that Harry does not feel the pain all the time may be important. Harry only feels pain every once in a while when LV is close to him or when LV has an emotional outburst. If LV's soul was inside of Harry wouldn't he feel pain all the time?
DD has told us that he does not think LV has any physical connections with his horcruxes, and that is why he cannot feel when one has been destroyed. Harry has a connection with the part of soul that still resides in LV's body, but that does not necessarily mean that part of LV's soul resides in Harry himself. Harry feels the surge of happiness that LV experiences, but since LV does not have a connection with his horcruxes it wouldn't make the part of soul in Harry's body (if there was one) feel happy too.
Sorry if this is kind of confusing....I was having trouble wording what I am trying to say.
DD has told us that he does not think LV has any physical connections with his horcruxes, and that is why he cannot feel when one has been destroyed. Harry has a connection with the part of soul that still resides in LV's body, but that does not necessarily mean that part of LV's soul resides in Harry himself. Harry feels the surge of happiness that LV experiences, but since LV does not have a connection with his horcruxes it wouldn't make the part of soul in Harry's body (if there was one) feel happy too.
This is a very good point that I'm not sure can be truly resolved with the information JKR has given us thus far. I usually attribute these inconsistencies to the fact that Harry is a living being rather than an inanimate object like most horcruxes. Also, if it is true that Nagini is a horcrux, and I believe it is, then the unusually strong horcrux-master relationship here would possibly serve as a closer model to the relationship between the fragment of LV's soul in Harry and the one that is in LV's body.
Again, I don't think we have the necessary amout of information to settle this conclusively, so for now I'll just agree to disagree.
i'm kind of iffy on the whole harry potter being a horcrux, also....
first of all, it makes it out like voldemort was trying to kill harry at godric's hollow.... if so, why would he kill a piece of his own soul... but, what if he made harry a horcrux with Lily's death? he could have made him a horcrux and he got stripped of his powers because of the enchantment Lily left on Harry
and, why did Voldemort tell Lily to step aside? he's never had problems with killing people before... there is supposed to be something important about Harry's eyes... well, his mother had the same eyes... what if voldemort wanted to make Lily a horcrux (explaining why he told her to step aside) with Harry's death? she wouldn't let him, so he just did it the other way around
(curiously, what is so important about Harry's eyes anyways???) _________________ ><***Ravenclaw Sprite***><
Nagini has a Horcrux in her and Voldemort has complete control over her.
Does he have complete control over Harry?
NO!
No, but that could explain why DD said that creating a horcrux using a living thing is not smart. It could explain how he was able to do what he did to Harry in OOTP as well.
I feel the connection/similarities between Harry and Voldemort are just too strong.
the only reason voldemort had any control over nagini is because he is a parslemouth... nagini being a horcrux just helps it along....
But, he probably can't have complete control over Harry because Dumbledore said that LV wouldn't feel when the other horcruxes were destroyed because they had been separated for so long already... well, IF harry is a horcrux, it would have been at least sixteen years ago in book seven. nagini was supposedly made a horcrux when LV killed the muggle at the beginning of book 4 _________________ ><***Ravenclaw Sprite***><
No, but that could explain why DD said that creating a horcrux using a living thing is not smart. It could explain how he was able to do what he did to Harry in OOTP as well.
I feel the connection/similarities between Harry and Voldemort are just too strong.
the only reason voldemort had any control over nagini is because he is a parslemouth... nagini being a horcrux just helps it along....
But, he probably can't have complete control over Harry because Dumbledore said that LV wouldn't feel when the other horcruxes were destroyed because they had been separated for so long already... well, IF harry is a horcrux, it would have been at least sixteen years ago in book seven. nagini was supposedly made a horcrux when LV killed the muggle at the beginning of book 4
I agree with the parselmouth thing, but I also think that the reason Voldemort has so much control over Nagini is because she is a horcrux.
but, we cannot forget that we don't know when Nagini was supposedly made a Horcrux (maybe before the killing of the gardener in GoF?), and we don't even know if she is a horcrux. As much as I hate to admit it, Dumbledore can be wrong.
ravenclaw sprite wrote:
But, he probably can't have complete control over Harry because Dumbledore said that LV wouldn't feel when the other horcruxes were destroyed because they had been separated for so long already... well, IF harry is a horcrux, it would have been at least sixteen years ago in book seven.
IF Harry is a horcrux, and I'm not saying he is, and based on IF Nagini is a horcrux as well, there is no reason that Voldemort would have more control over one of his horcruxes than the other.
But, I can't help wondering...why would Voldemort make Harry a horcrux in the first place? I know one could argue that it was by accident at Godric's Hollow, but I don't think that was a horcrux. Voldemort, in trying to kill Harry, transferred some of his powers to the baby. He would have known if he put a horcrux inside of Harry.
Harry is not a horcrux when voldy went and killed harrys parents he had not kill seven people only six... His grandparents-2 His father- 3 Harrys Parents 5 The girl in the washroom when he unleashed slytherns beast-6 and as soon as Harry died he could make his seventh but he couldnt cause he lost all power after he used the avada kedavara on Harry. _________________ Harry Vs Voldemort Who will win?
Will you people stop suggesting this? How did Voldemort make Harry a horcrux while trying to kill him? AND if part of Voldemort's soul was in Harry he'd try to take control of him, like he did with Ginny. There's no implication that Harry has part of Voldemort's soul inside him.
Bottem line: Harry...isn't...a horcrux...PERIOD!
I actually think the baskalisk from the chamer of secrets was a horcrux and nagini is not
i understand kid ur alrite 4 a gyffindor _________________ and so, The Fellowship of the Phoenix set off on their journey into the heart of Voldemordor
to destroy the One Horcrux ...
'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' - Dumbledore the White
'my precious' - Kreacher
so do i kiddo, lol u have any otner interseting thoreys
i hear ur a mod on another site do tell x _________________ and so, The Fellowship of the Phoenix set off on their journey into the heart of Voldemordor
to destroy the One Horcrux ...
'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' - Dumbledore the White
'my precious' - Kreacher
no bother but ur a clever young man should have went to ravenclaw
now i play up to my strenghts i am truely in my ideal house _________________ and so, The Fellowship of the Phoenix set off on their journey into the heart of Voldemordor
to destroy the One Horcrux ...
'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' - Dumbledore the White
'my precious' - Kreacher
lol but i'm also brave and cunning which proves i want to be in gryffindor.
Also...you have a CHOICE on what house you would like to be in like the sorting hat said you did in the 2nd book. Harry SHOULD have been in slytherin says the sorting hat but harry CHOSE to go in gryffindor, get my point?
yes i do
i love my house, i wouldnt choose another, lol
well enjoy it gyffin-loser lol
nah man just joking _________________ and so, The Fellowship of the Phoenix set off on their journey into the heart of Voldemordor
to destroy the One Horcrux ...
'YOU SHALL NOT PASS' - Dumbledore the White
'my precious' - Kreacher
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