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Posts: 5163 · Joined: Nov 29, 2006 Location: ~Rofl my waffle~ Posts: 5163

Do you think Voldemort would have killed Snape even if it wasn't for the wand ? I think there a a few good reasons why Voldemort would want to finish Snape off.

1. He became Headmaster of Hogwarts. ( Voldemort could be envious about it )
2. Snape fell for Lily. ( He could be marked as a blood traitor. )
3. Snape killed Dumbledore. ( Something Voldemort could have possibly wanted to do him self. He didn't think Draco would succeed. )
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Posts: 22292 · Posted: October 25, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Voldemort Vs. Snape.

I don't think Voldemort trust Snape in the long run. Snape was able to keep lot of secrets from Voldemort, assuming, by using occlumency. In HBP when Snape tries to "read" Draco's mind, he realizes that Aunt Bellatrix had been giving him occlumency lesson. Which makes me wonder... when Voldemort and Snape were in the Shrieking Shack... did Voldemort know that Snape was using Occlumency on him? Because obviously someone who fails at penetrating someone's mind using legilimancy can tell if the person is using occlumency... was Voldemort able to tell? I think so, and therefore Snape was a goner either way, Elder Wand or not.

I think that either Voldemort hadn't trusted Snape for awhile and it was only a matter of time or Voldemort knew then, at that moment, for sure that Snape was a traitor.

Voldemort might also have worried (not that he worried often, but you know what I mean) that Snape might have been weakened by his ability to love. Snape asked Voldemort to spare Lily... then soon after Voldemort became Vapormort. During Voldemort's regain to power, he might have been using Snape as a pawn all along... as a way to ensure DD's death, as a way to penetrate the school, and as a way to get to Harry.
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Posts: 5163 · Joined: Nov 29, 2006 Location: ~Rofl my waffle~ Posts: 5163

Very good points. Although, if i am correct, when Harry tells Voldemort Snape was loyal to DD the whole time it makes it seem like he didn't know. Then i believe he says "it matters not". So i am assuming he really didn't see him has a traitor. He also acts like Snape was "a waste of a good Death eater" because of the way he acted after he killed him. I am not sure but i think he said "what a shame, what a shame."
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Posts: 22292 · Posted: October 25, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject:

Posts: 696 · Posted: October 26, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject:

GinnyX makes great points in her first post about occlumency and legilimency, but the way it was written I would have to say that if Voldemort didnt trust him 100% then it was 99%. So you might say that JK slipped a little in how she wrote their relationship because I think GinnyX is right about how he would have felt Snape blocking him out with occlumency or that he would have probably seen Snape as weak because of his love for Lily. Im kinda surprised that Voldemort didnt kill Snape just for asking him to spare anothers life(showing care for another) especially a muggle born and an enemy.
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Posts: 21 · Posted: October 26, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject:

Good points!!!

As for Snape being headmaster of Hogwarts, I think that WAS Voldemort's doing. Voldemort controlled the MoM, and it was the MoM that made Snape headmaster. Therefore, it think it was Voldemort that wanted Snape to be headmaster in the first place. Just as Voldemort wasn't ready to openly declare himself Minister, he didn't feel the time was right to declare himself headmaster either. So I don't think he minded Snape holding the position.
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Posts: 22292 · Posted: October 26, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject:

Posts: 1679 · Joined: Jul 22, 2007 Location: Godric's Hollow Posts: 1679

no i dont think so cuz he was a follower of LV
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Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 6, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

oh, no. I don`t thoink Voldemort would have killed Snape if it wasn`t for the wand. I don`t think he ever wanted to become a headmaster of Hogwarts. Can you magine him sitting behind the desk?
And killing Snape wouldn`t return Dumbldore to life so he could kill him again.
And as for that blood-traitor thing. Voldemort said that Snape told him that there are other women and of purer blood. And that Snape only desired her. So Voldemort wouldn`t care about that.
He killed poor Snapey in his ingorance and desire, hunger for power. He thought that Snape was one of his most loyal servants and would never find out that he was really on Dumbledore`s side if Harry hadn`t told him.
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Posts: 648 · Posted: January 6, 2008 8:49 am Post subject:

I agree with you.Voldemort isn't that stupid.

Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 6, 2008 8:58 am Post subject:

Posts: 27563 · Posted: January 6, 2008 10:18 am Post subject:

hmmm... if bellatrix were as skilled as snape he wouldnt have killed her. because he is totally sure of bellatrix's allegiance. it would be wonderful to have such a skilled and loyal death eater at your hands. on the other hand, snape's allegiance is a bit.. well shady... nver trust a spy. and especially against someone as powerful as dd... if he can fool dd... who's to say tht he cant fool you too? voldie and dd are not so very far apart in terms of skill.. snape is a very skilled man whose allegiance is a little shady... so voldie will have to kill him with or without the elder wand, for fear that snape might one day overpower him. he was able to do something which voldie couldnt do... kill dumbledore...
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Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 6, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:

yeah, well... but Snape probably would never kill Dumbledore if he wouldn`t let him do it. Voldie didn`t know it though.
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Posts: 17940 · Posted: January 6, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

He became Headmaster of Hogwarts

voldy probably arranged that himself so he could have more control over the school

Snape fell for Lily

im sure that if voldy bought the thing about there being other women he thought that snape was only lusting after her

Snape killed Dumbledore

it is implied in book 7 that he was planning for snape to do so if malfoy didnt manage it

i think he really trusted snape until harry told him the truth before he died, he just didnt care for any other than his own stinking skin so he just killed snape to become more powerful
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Posts: 762 · Joined: Jan 4, 2008 Location: montenegro Posts: 762

Voldemort trusted that Snape was on his side...but when Harry told him,in great hall,that snape wasn't his servant,voldemort looked nervous ans surprised...at that moment voldemort realized that make big mistake!!!poor snape.... Crying or Very sad

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Posts: 27563 · Posted: January 6, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject:

ok, so voldie knew snape was loyal to him and not dumbledore.. but he knew that snape was not obsessed with him like bella... so since snape is so skilled, voldie will feel threatened, he will kill him. he will only keep you if you are not a threat to him.
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Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 7, 2008 8:24 am Post subject:

well, Voldie for example didn`t know how skilled Snape is at Occlumency. He was reading Snapes mind and thought that he`s true, but he was just shutting his mind. So I doubt thast Voldie realized how poweerful Snape actually is. I think in his ignorance he thought that he`s the best and no one could beat him. Just like he thought he would be the only one to find Chamber of Secrets or Room of Requirement. ?
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Posts: 63 · Joined: Dec 3, 2007 Location: Delaware Posts: 63

I think that Voldemort was too arrogant to believe that anyone could fool him and that if it hadn't been for the Elder Wand, he would have left Snape alive.

Posts: 27563 · Posted: January 7, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:

he knows that snape is very very skilled in occlumency (having fooled dd, a great legilimens), but not skilled enough to beat him. nevertheless, he would rather play safe than srry and kill snape.
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Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 16, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:

I don`t think DD was as half as good as Snape when it came to Legilimency. Confused

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Posts: 2519 · Posted: January 16, 2008 10:37 am Post subject:

I dont think that Voldemort would have killed Snape unless he was after the Elder wand in that particular moment. Snape was a valued Death Eater and had proven loyal, even though that isn't much considering that it is Voldemort, but I dont think he is stupid enough to go and whack off all of his loyal Death Eaters for no reason. Especially one of Snapes caliber. He had information, probably enough to last him a life time, that could deem worthy of Voldemorts ear. Also, he was a very good, powerful wizard. Someone who would prove handy if something went wrong during the war. Might I add, they were at the climax of it all, and I think he would have kept him for his forces, making it even more possible for them to win.

But I also think that he probably would have been dead the very moment they won. There is also all those points that everyone mentioned against him. he was a dead man no matter what really.
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Posts: 1620 · Posted: January 16, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:

Posts: 17940 · Posted: January 16, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject:

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Posts: 320 · Joined: Jan 10, 2008 Location: Serbia Posts: 320

Even if there wasn't that deathly wand,I think Voldemort would try to kill him if he figured Snape had a feeling which is for Death Eaters forbidden,but he wouldn't have time because Harry would protect Snape after he sees all those memories.Harry would find some other way to defeat Voldemort forever and Snape might be still alive.
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