exactly, which is why the Sorting Hat doesn't necassarily put you in the house because you have the traits, but possibly because you admire the traits. Eevryone is a bit brave, from Susan Bones to Padma Patil... but they weren't sorted into Gryffindor. Not because they aren't brave or as brave as, say Seasmus Finnigan.
Not everyone would choose Gryffindor, the other students seem very content with their houses.
And I'm not saying the students choose their houses and that's the final word, otherwise what's the point of the Hat's existence. But their choices do have an impact on where they end up.
We don't know how the Hat works. Supposedly Gryffindor took off his hat and the 4 founders bewitched it with their brains. Or something along those lines. It's purpose was to take over for the Founders after they've passed. So it begs the question, how did the Founders sort the students into each house? _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
exactly, which is why the Sorting Hat doesn't necassarily put you in the house because you have the traits, but possibly because you admire the traits. Eevryone is a bit brave, from Susan Bones to Padma Patil... but they weren't sorted into Gryffindor. Not because they aren't brave or as brave as, say Seasmus Finnigan.
Not everyone would choose Gryffindor, the other students seem very content with their houses.
And I'm not saying the students choose their houses and that's the final word, otherwise what's the point of the Hat's existence. But their choices do have an impact on where they end up.
We don't know how the Hat works. Supposedly Gryffindor took off his hat and the 4 founders bewitched it with their brains. Or something along those lines. It's purpose was to take over for the Founders after they've passed. So it begs the question, how did the Founders sort the students into each house?
not everyone has a sense of bravery. i think there are more cowards than there are brave people. yeah most people seem content with their houses, but there would be those who are not and would still choose to be put in gryffindor.
my point is that, okay, harry and hermione picked gryffindor. while they were meant to be for other houses, it was clear that they had a strong sense of bravery. pettigrew on the other hand has not a drop of noble blood in his veins. even if he would choose gryffindor, i dont think the hat would allow it because he is not brave. its not just your choices that are taken into consideration, but also your traits. pettigrew may have chosen gryffindor, but he had none of godric gryffindor's traits. harry and hermione may have been chosen for other houses, but since they chose gryffindor, AND they have lots of courage in them, they were picked for gryffindor. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
It's not just brevery that Godric Gryffindor valued...
Perhaps Harry and hermione weren't meant for other houses. JKR has said that the Hat does't make mistakes.
Bravery isn't something you are born with, it's something you are or become.
If you don't think he belonged in Gryffindor, then where? He obviously wasn't clever or witty or loyal in the least, either. I doubt the Hat plopped Wormtail in any house just to get him off his stool. There had to be a reason behind it. My theory is that although Womrtail wasn't brave, he wished he were. It was something he yearned to be. Which isn't surprising for a kid like him. He didn't want to be smart or loyal or hard-working. He wanted to be brave. Typical for a cowardly jerk like him. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
Slytherin! sticks around with the big guys. that's slytherin-ish. not being able to stick up to your friends is so ungryffindor-ish. wants a share of voldemort's power. slytherin-ish! too cowardly to return to his master. its a sign of no loyalty. so he cant be a gryffindor. he's got none of the traits.
the sorting hat never made a mistake, which is why it didnt make a mistake in putting harry in gryffindor. harry, after all, had gryffindor's traits. same goes for hermione. but pettigrew just has none. and even if he pleaded to the hat to put him in gryffindor, since he has none of those traits, he couldnt have been put there. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
He was brave, it takes a lot of bravery to betray your friends. It's not the sort of courage we think of when we think of brave, but it's courage.
And he was loyal, but to Voldemort. In fact, he was the only one of the DEs that went looking for him.
He worked hard to carrying out the plan, even if the plan was to help destroy his supposed friends and baby.
And he was clever, he managed to remain undetected as a rat and no one ever got suspicious of him when he didn't die, even after 12 years.
Wormtail could have been sorted into any house, and fit in. Maybe he didn't have all the traits conventionally, but he did have them.
I wonder if the Marauders would have jumped up and down to be friends with a Slytherin, since one of their big things is purebloods and disdain for muggles and muggleborns. I wonder if Wormtail was a Slytherin they woud have been friends with him. That also makes me think Wormtail wasn't in Slytherin. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
peter went searching for voldie out of fear, not loyalty.
what makes you brave by betraying your friends? standing up against them because of what you believe in is brave. like neville stood up against the three in Sorcerer's Stone because they were breaking rules by being out of bed late at night. that was why neville was awarded ten points.
but betraying your friends is another thing. if pettigrew firmly believed in the purity of the wizarding race, then fine, he could still be brave. but he has no beliefs, only the drive to survive and be with the biggest bully in the playground. it used to be james siruis, and lupin. that was why he kept "tagging along with them". he was not really considered a friend the way the three regarded each other. he was more like a tail, and james and sirius pitied him coz he was such a loser.
more than clever, he was cunning. that makes a slytherin, doesnt it. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
peter went searching for voldie out of fear, not loyalty.
what makes you brave by betraying your friends? standing up against them because of what you believe in is brave. like neville stood up against the three in Sorcerer's Stone because they were breaking rules by being out of bed late at night. that was why neville was awarded ten points.
but betraying your friends is another thing. if pettigrew firmly believed in the purity of the wizarding race, then fine, he could still be brave. but he has no beliefs, only the drive to survive and be with the biggest bully in the playground. it used to be james siruis, and lupin. that was why he kept "tagging along with them". he was not really considered a friend the way the three regarded each other. he was more like a tail, and james and sirius pitied him coz he was such a loser.
more than clever, he was cunning. that makes a slytherin, doesnt it. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
yes, I do agree that Wormtail went after Voldemort out of fear... no doubt in that. It shows he fears Voldemort more than Dumbledore. That loyalty, although warped, is still what it is.
I didn't say he stood up to his friends. I said he betrayed his friends. And it doesn't make you brave to betray your friends, it makes you a jerk.
He was brave to betray them in the first place. His friends, the Order, even DD. It takes courage to turn your back on the few people who trusted him and he went to the "dark side" for something as petty as power... and maybe even out of fear because his side was losing. It sounds cowardice, but to actually split on your friends, that takes a depraved form of bravery. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
well you are sort of "betraying" them if you stand up against them. but that kind of betrayal reflects the bravery in you, that you are able to stand up against your freidns because of what you believe.
pettigrew betrayed his friends because he wanted to be with the biggest bully in the playground, voldemort. so there is no bravery in that act. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
there is, it's just an askewed version of it. It's not the sort of behavior we would call brave, but brave none the less. No where does it save that an act has to be selfless to be considered brave.
The definition fits what Wormtail did, even if it was out of fear. Ironic, huh? But that's what happens when the characters and story are so three dimensional. They can be terrified and courageous at the same time and still have the same outcome.
When you "stand up to your friends" you are facing them. He completely turned his back on them. That was the difference I was trying to make with my word choice of "betray." _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
Treachery means "violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence." Which is exactly what Wormtail did, he violated the Order's faith hi him. And that action takes courage. I would have peed my pants had I have to go to Voldy or one of his death eaters and told them that he wanted to switch sides. But he did it, which again, takes courage. YOu need to look at bravery in a broader scope. To be brave doesn't mean having to risk your life for someone else or doing something based on your beliefs. It means doing something that you ordinarily wuldn't have done because you would have been too scared. He was scared of losing, or dying, and so he gathered up every ounce of courage, betrayed his friends and became a follower to Voldemort and the Death Eaters, even though he might not even agreed with their purpose and their means. And that was courageous of him.
To commit treachery, you have to be brave. Yes he was a coward... He was both brave and scared.
I'm not saying I think he was definitely Gryffindor, but I really doubt he was a Slytherin. If anything because I doubt the Marauders would have hung out with him. And I don't think as a Slytherin he would hang out with Gryffindors. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
that's it... there is the fear part. either situation is cause for fear, openly declaring your allegiance to james potter and telling voldie that you are switching sides. but there is more fear in declaring your allegiance to james because you know voldie will hunt you down as well. what actually matters is why you picked one over the other. pettigrew sided with voldie not out of loyalty to voldie or belief that the wizarding community should only comprise of purebloods, but because HE WANTED POWER! whichever situation he would have picked, there would be the fear oart which he would have to overcome. but what are his motives for siding with voldie? HE WANTED A SHARE OF HIS POWER! imagine, how he will be praised by the death eaters, as the one who handed the potters to voldemort? only, the plan did not succeed. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
I don't think he sided with Voldemort so much for the power as he did because he wanted to live. He sensed his side was losing so he switched. Or he was given an offer he couldn't refuse. Eoither way, I think he sided with Voldemort more out of fear than for the power. Although I'm sure that power was enticing to him, too.
What I'm saying is that everything he did, required some form of courage. He does posess some of the traits of all of the houses, and I don't think he came to Hogwarts when he as 11 years old seeking power. Something happened along the way that made him turn adn I think it was fear of death or something along those lines. When he put on that hat he was not thinking power, power,power... he was thinking something lese, but what? Why, if he was so determined for power did he become friends with Lupin, Sirius and James, two of the least likely students to be interested in power. One being a disgrace to his family, Lupin having no power, and Well, James we don't kow much about yet. Why them? Because they were the cool kids, why wouldn't he want to be friends with them? But if he was a aSlytherin and they were Gryffindors, then they wouldn't have given each other the time of day. _________________ ^made by Fiendfyre
well none of the three marauders was power hungry - but they were popular. when your in school, the "powerful" people there are the popular people like james and sirius. you hardly get eleven year olds who dream of amassing power. most teenagers are more preoccupied with being popular. but once you get out of hogwarts, popularity is no longer an issue. its power that matters. and that is why pettigrew sided with voldie. that makes him un-brave. you dont need to die fighting. thats extreme gryffindor. im pretty sure half the gryffindors wouldnt die for their frriends or their beliefs. but betraying your friends and siding with the big guy is such a slytherin thing to do, and has not a drop of bravery in it. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
Or perhaps he will do something for Harry in the 7th book that we don't know about yet. After all, Dumbledore said that Peter owes Harry a life-debt now. Perhaps this will be brought up again in the last book. _________________
yes, most likely he will. but the fact remains that he is neither brave nor loyal. his betrayal to james is proof of that. and even if he still returns the favor to harry, he still does not deserve to be called brave and noble, after what he did to james. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
Although its arguable that Wormtail could have been in Gryffindor/Slytherin/Hufflepuff, its not common for Gryffindor's to associate with anyone out of their own house.
Its not common for ANYONE to associate with anyone out of their own house.
Three Gryffindors and a Slytherin walking around?
halfbloodprincess wrote:
yes, most likely he will. but the fact remains that he is neither brave nor loyal. his betrayal to james is proof of that. and even if he still returns the favor to harry, he still does not deserve to be called brave and noble, after what he did to james.
BLAH BLAH BLAH.
He was loyal to Voldemort, even though it was out of fear. Pettigrew is the type of guy that has a strong dependency on people who are much stronger, smarter, swifter than him, like James, Sirius and Lupin. He was very much loyal to those three while attending Hogwarts, keeping to the Marauders (I solemnly swear to do no good ...or something like that)
BUT stuff happens after high school that are out of your control, because of those traits and his weak will, he was an easy target for Voldemort....to use and be a spy/secret keeper which evidently lead to the Potter's funeral.
AND FINALLY
darkmark.com wrote:
According to an interview with Rowling, he was placed in GRYFFINDOR.
by the way,
This person is smart, uses thorough evidence.
GinnyX wrote:
I don't think the Sorting House puts you in the house because you have their traits, but because the House has the traits you value.
The Hat could have put him into Gryffindor not because he was brave, but because he admired bravery.
That being said, I think Wormtail was an impressionable young boy. He went along with the crowd, trailing after those who would allow him. And entranced with power, he fell in with the wrong crowd. Too fearful of the Dark Lord, he gave in; betraying his friends.... Out of fear of Voldemort... and cowardice that if he didn't go to the seemingly winning side, he would perish.
It is my belief that he started slipping by the end of their seventh year, but didn't officially stray until well after graduation. By then who knows what happened to him.
Sirius was riding a motorbike, James had settled down with Lily... people change and for some all the worse.
Wormtail may have at one time admired bravery... but people change, as do their values and dreams.
okay fine chunice, just say you dont like me straight to my face. pettigrew can be in any effing house he wants. but he's still a coward, scummy, worthless, brainless creature who was not loyal to james and sirius but merely stayed with them because they were popular. this piece of crap has no loyalty. _________________
I love my handsome Erik
okay fine chunice, just say you dont like me straight to my face. pettigrew can be in any effing house he wants. but he's still a coward, scummy, worthless, brainless creature who was not loyal to james and sirius but merely stayed with them because they were popular. this piece of crap has no loyalty.
I don't even know you, I just know your points arent always valid.
If he was Brainless, he would be dead by now because Voldemort and Sirius would have killed him, among many of the other death eaters. How clever he was to stick with Ron all this time.
If he was worthless and scummy, again, Voldemort would have killed him but he has been proven quite Worthy.
And if he wasnt a coward, then none of the Harry Potter events would have transpired and we wouldn't have a great plot for a great book...which means he is quite FULL of worth.
I didnt even know you were halfbloodprincess in the heir of gryffindor AHAH _________________
Last edited by chunice on May 12, 2007 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
hey, don't insult Peter like that!!! I can swear he was once a good guy, and he WILL show us what is bravery like in the end!To be brave it's not being like Sirius, an appasionate brainless guy-although he was my friend, this is the truth-to be brave is to have fear and fight it...just like Peter will do!!! _________________ RP:Draco Malfoy
RP too: Edward Rivers, from Ravenclaw
and his sly brother, Steven.
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I can swear he was once a good guy, and he WILL show us what is bravery like in the end!To be brave it's not being like Sirius, an appasionate brainless guy-although he was my friend, this is the truth-to be brave is to have fear and fight it...just like Peter will do!!! 